# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/321 "2015-09-02T12:49:46Z")
Ok, OK, OK. I’m sorry for using the word “fired” earlier. I was angry. “Not being famliar with Kentucky politics, I wish we could remove her from her job somehow.” Is that better? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/322 "2015-09-02T12:51:17Z")
She’s in contempt. Throw her in jail and levy a fine against her per day equal to what she makes in a day from the job, so she cannot continue to benefit from her criminal conduct. Leave her in jail until she relents or resigns. Done. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/323 "2015-09-02T13:12:31Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yes, like I wrote, it smacks me of bad organizational design to have the process for suspending or removing or overruling a full-time official NOT available full-time, out of assuming that people would be honorable enough to resign first. Maybe Kentucky should consider moving this in the future from the Legislature’s to a statewide court or commission’s sphere of action. The legislature is considering a bill (or possibly a legislator has suggested a bill) that would create a state agency in charge of issuing marriage licenses. The governor can call the legislature into special session if he wants. I suspect (though I can’t say for sure) that he hasn’t done so because he’s worried there won’t be enough votes to impeach. Kentucky isn’t exactly Oregon, and Davis is a _Democrat_, so you can imagine how intransigent Kentucky Republicans might be about this. It’s not bad design, exactly; the system has worked for a hundred years. It’s just that until now the office was purely ministerial, and there was no reason to believe any holder would object to carrying out its functions on religious grounds. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/324 "2015-09-02T13:18:02Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > She’s in contempt. Throw her in jail and levy a fine against her per day equal to what she makes in a day from the job, so she cannot continue to benefit from her criminal conduct. Leave her in jail until she relents or resigns. Done. This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. I have to believe the Governor can do something…some rarely used powers to remove someone like this. She’s not doing her job, so stop paying her and find a way to remove her. Also, it seems like someone at a level higher than her, maybe the Governor again, can appoint someone to perform the one function she won’t do until the legislature is back in session. Assuming that is the only way to have her removed. The tricky thing for me is that when she started her tenure, there was no conflict between her duties and her religious convictions. The law changed and the conflict arose. But that doesn’t mean she has to act against her religious convictions. Yes, she should do the honorable and sensible thing and resign. But barring that, it is a pickle. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/325 "2015-09-02T13:22:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Kentucky isn’t exactly Oregon, and Davis is a _Democrat_, so you can imagine how intransigent Kentucky Republicans might be about this. Oh, that does make things more complicated. This will be interesting to watch. But hopefully a short term fix can be instituted so people can get on with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/326 "2015-09-02T13:39:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. She’d be punished for not doing her job, which she claims is impossible because of her religious beliefs. Of course, you being uncomfortable makes me more confident in my views, as I’ve come to recognize you as a reverse moral compass. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/327 "2015-09-02T13:44:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. Intentionally violating the constitutional rights of citizens when one is bound by oath to uphold those rights is not a religious belief. She has every right to believe whatever she wants, but the rest of us, through our legal institutions, have every right to punish her when she _intentionally violates the law for personal profit._ This isn’t some personal devotional monument that violates a sub-sub chapter of a zoning code, this is someone who is continuing to do something explicitly illegal _because it benefits her bank account_ to not resign. There is no religion involved here, just straight-up obvious fraud. Even if she resigns, I think she should be fined the amount she’s been paid since this fiasco began. IMO every paycheck she cashed while she was _willfully_ depriving people of their Constitutional rights is a proceed of crime and should be treated like drug money. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/328 "2015-09-02T13:45:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The tricky thing for me is that when she started her tenure, there was no conflict between her duties and her religious convictions. The law changed and the conflict arose. But that doesn’t mean she has to act against her religious convictions. Yes, she should do the honorable and sensible thing and resign. But barring that, it is a pickle. Her job is to verify that applicants qualify to marry _under state law._ Her personal beliefs are not part of that list. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/329 "2015-09-02T13:46:44Z")
She’s not being punished for her beliefs. She’s being punished for making her beliefs the Official Religious Beliefs of Rowan County, Kentucky. A distinction that won’t make a difference in the fundraising efforts for her supporters, but one that ought to. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/330 "2015-09-02T13:48:41Z")
In my eyes, she is being punished for her religious views and well she should. My motto is unless you work for a religious institution/business, when you clock in, your faith stays in the hallway. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/331 "2015-09-02T13:48:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. I have to believe the Governor can do something…some rarely used powers to remove someone like this. She’s not doing her job, so stop paying her and find a way to remove her. Also, it seems like someone at a level higher than her, maybe the Governor again, can appoint someone to perform the one function she won’t do until the legislature is back in session. Assuming that is the only way to have her removed. > > The tricky thing for me is that when she started her tenure, there was no conflict between her duties and her religious convictions. The law changed and the conflict arose. But that doesn’t mean she has to act against her religious convictions. Yes, she should do the honorable and sensible thing and resign. But barring that, it is a pickle. Well, that’s kind of the thing: she doesn’t have to act against her religious convictions. She can have a deputy clerk sign the same sex couples’ forms. Or she can resign. What she can’t do is prohibit her entire office from issuing same-sex marriage licenses (or no licenses at all right now, in fact) especially in defiance of a court order. She’s in contempt. The thing about civil disobedience is that you have to accept the consequences of your lawbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/332 "2015-09-02T13:50:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. Would it make you uncomfortable if the same action was taken for a clerk who refused interracial couples, or Jewish couples, due to their religious beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/333 "2015-09-02T13:51:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. I don’t see it that way. She would be punished for not upholding the duties of her office. As the County Clerk in an elected position, I’m sure she must have taken an oath of office and was sworn in. I’d rather she was not put in jail. Just quietly removed from office. And if the deputy clerk also refuses, same thing. And on down the line until the rats nest of small minded people are removed. I wonder what would happen is she was another kind of bigot and refused to grant a license to a heterosexual couple that was of mixed race? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/334 "2015-09-02T13:56:50Z")
I was wondering about that. There are or were religions that frown on remarriage after divorce (or remarriage after divorce but without an annulment granted by the church). So what if she refused to grant marriage licenses to such couples, or those who were marrying outside their faith? I almost wish someone else was more fundamentalist about this, just to see when the support for such people fails. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/335 "2015-09-02T14:01:14Z")
Her “beliefs” are just typical American “Cherry Picking” Christianity. Clearly she has no issue with cheating on her own spouse, multiple divorces, etc. So there’s no rightful “sanctity of marriage” claim here. This is just outright bigotry. And I think Jesus would tell her that to her face, should she ever meet him, which isn’t near as likely as she thinks. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/336 "2015-09-02T14:01:56Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > [MSN](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kentucky-clerk-fighting-gay-marriage-has-wed-four-times/ar-AAdQSO9) > > I just saw the above news item on Davis. Seems she applies family and Biblical values rather selectively in her life. Married four time, divorced three. > > Divorced one guy while pregnant with twins from the third guy, but #2 adopted them? I think family get togethers with these folks must be interesting. In my view, her questionable social stature explains her irrational behavior perfectly. If she were an upstanding moral citizen, she would not care if gay people got married. But given her situation she _needs_ to push someone to a lower rung. By grasping to the belief that gays are less than, she lifts herself up in her mind. Pathetic, but common. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/337 "2015-09-02T14:06:13Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > As an aside, here’s hoping a homosexual couple that hasn’t been able to get married in her county sue the fuck out of her, [like this couple in Texas](http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/uncucumbered/texas_clerk_gets_the_bill_for_her_religious_freedom_claim). Heh. “Katie Lang”. Methinks that while we’re waiting to hear Kim Davis’ fate, perhaps she could re-read Romans 13: > [@God](#): > > 1 **Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established**. The authorities that exist have been established by God. > 2 Consequently, **whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves**. > 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. > 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. > 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. > > 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. > 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. > > 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. > 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” > 10 **Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law**. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/338 "2015-09-02T14:22:50Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Geez **D’Anconia.** > > I’ve read this thread, and have even watched news reports IN AUSTRALIA about this travesty, yet you somehow seem to think it’s a bit of ‘recreational outrage’, that unless you’re gay and wanting to get married AND live in that particular county in Kentucky it shouldn’t affect you? > > Are you serious? Really? Or are you just being a recreational troll for shitz and giggles? > > :dubious: Recreational troll is recreational. And obvious. > [@Baker](#): > > [MSN](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kentucky-clerk-fighting-gay-marriage-has-wed-four-times/ar-AAdQSO9) > > I just saw the above news item on Davis. Seems she applies family and Biblical values rather selectively in her life. Married four time, divorced three. > > Divorced one guy while pregnant with twins from the third guy, but #2 adopted them? I think family get togethers with these folks must be interesting. Not to play too much into a stereotype, but it wouldn’t surprise me to find out they were all appearing at the same family reunions as cousins to begin with. IMO: Jailing her would be a bad idea. Doing so would make her much more of a martyr than she already is and the annoying facebook posts would go through the roof again. A thousand dollar a day fine could work out though. Sure, there would be a gofundme that might cover the first month, but I don’t think that the well for that would be much deeper. Then once the fines start eating into whatever personal reserves she might have I suspect she would soon resign. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/339 "2015-09-02T14:30:34Z")
Screw that. Jail her and fine her $10k/day for being an asshole. See how far gofundme goes then. What I want to know is if, under Kentucky law, prisoners in jail for contempt can be made to work a chain gang. That would be funny! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/340 "2015-09-02T14:43:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. No, it would be the state punishing her for refusing to do her damn job. Phrasing it the way you do reflects your own anguish over the “dilution” (your word) of marriage caused by letting teh gayz have it too, not any attempt to seriously understand the issue. > [@](#): > > The tricky thing for me is that when she started her tenure, there was no conflict between her duties and her religious convictions. Job requirements change in any job. You gotta deal with it. Don’t act like the job is something you’re entitled to. You aren’t. > [@](#): > > Yes, she should do the honorable and sensible thing and resign. But barring that, it is a pickle. Barring that, she needs to be removed. It isn’t a pickle at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=18)