# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/381 "2015-09-02T17:54:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Her personal _religious_ prejudices. (Not that it really matters, see _Conscientious Objection_). And I didn’t know that you were of the mind that person cannot have strong religious convictions unless they are a perfect, for example, Christian. Also, are you of the mind that just because many Christians have been divorced or do not have a problem with divorce, that no Christian can have a legitimate problem with it? > > I’m really not sure what you’re argument is, I think she should have immediately resigned. Not having done so, I’m all for having her removed from the position. As far as her being ecstatic about the attention, all the more reason to find a way to remove her ASAP. She claims that her objections are based on her religious beliefs, but she does not appear to actually believe them–except on the single issue where she chooses to use those beliefs to hide her personal prejudices. This is not a case of a “religious” politician getting caught lying, stealing, or otherwise violating the rules of the religion. It is closer to a politician who ran on a platform of “family values” showing up with an account at Ashley Madison and a mistress. Her claim is that she is defending marriage by refusing to do her job–yet she specifically has violated her religion’s rules of marriage. She is not being punished for her religious beliefs, only her bigoted actions. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/382 "2015-09-02T17:58:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > B) I do not think it is immaterial that she was able to perform the duties of her job at the time of her taking the oath. What is immaterial is \*\*Steve MB’\*\*s point about SSM becoming legal was on the horizon at the time of her oath. It was not part of the duties at the time. I don’t know the wording of the oath she took, but I suspect it had something about the US Constitution, perhaps something about the Kentucky Constitution, and maybe something about upholding the laws of Kentucky. I’m sure it did not list the laws in force at the time of the oath. Since the Supreme Court found that SSM is protected by the Constitution, she is violating her oath, as she does not get to dispute their findings. If she does, then it is okay for some clerk to refuse to issue gun permits because he feels they should be more restrictive than the 2nd Amendment as interpreted by the Court says. She also does not get to have veto power on any new laws that the legislature passes that she might disagree with religiously. So, if she thought her oath just covered the laws at the time, her understanding of her oath is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/383 "2015-09-02T18:00:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t know the wording of the oath she took, but I suspect it had something about the US Constitution, **perhaps something about the Virginia Constitution, and maybe something about upholding the laws of Virginia.** See, that’s her loophole. She’s in Kentucky. 😃 ETA: Damn, you caught it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/384 "2015-09-02T18:00:44Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Another clerk says he’ll die to defend traditional marriage–and…what? Become a martyr? Or just another dead person? > > [Kentucky Clerk Says He May Die Fighting Gay Marriage | People For](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/kentucky-clerk-says-he-may-die-fighting-gay-marriage) Go ahead, make my day. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/385 "2015-09-02T18:03:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > She claims that her objections are based on her religious beliefs, but she does not appear to actually believe them–except on the single issue where she chooses to use those beliefs to hide her personal prejudices. > > This is not a case of a “religious” politician getting caught lying, stealing, or otherwise violating the rules of the religion. It is closer to a politician who ran on a platform of “family values” showing up with an account at Ashley Madison and a mistress. Her claim is that she is defending marriage by refusing to do her job–yet she specifically has violated her religion’s rules of marriage. > She is not being punished for her religious beliefs, only her bigoted actions. But you don’t know that. That’s your take, based primarily on her falling short of her own ideals in her own life. Additionally, I’m not of the mind that one need to embrace all aspects of a religion equally to feel that one is doing a good job of trying to live a life consistent with religious principles. For instance, I’d say that many Christians would say that they make an allowance for divorce, but not adultery. So someone who is divorced can still take a moral stand against adultery. The point is, maybe you’re right. But it behooves us as a society to give religion a wider berth as opposed to a narrower one. And I say that as someone, as you know, is not religious myself. It’s just that I do believe that the principles that the country was founded upon were good ones and that they matter. Will people game the system from time to time? Undoubtedly. But I see that as a small cost. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/386 "2015-09-02T18:05:22Z")
You’ve already admitted you don’t want to die on Kim Davis’ particular hill, so what do you care? She may not be a hypocrite, but she’s definitely stupid. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/387 "2015-09-02T18:07:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t know the wording of the oath she took, but I suspect it had something about the US Constitution, perhaps something about the Kentucky Constitution, and maybe something about upholding the laws of Kentucky. I’m sure it did not list the laws in force at the time of the oath. Since the Supreme Court found that SSM is protected by the Constitution, she is violating her oath, as she does not get to dispute their findings. If she does, then it is okay for some clerk to refuse to issue gun permits because he feels they should be more restrictive than the 2nd Amendment as interpreted by the Court says. She also does not get to have veto power on any new laws that the legislature passes that she might disagree with religiously. > > So, if she thought her oath just covered the laws at the time, her understanding of her oath is incorrect. I agree with you. I think you’re giving the point I made that you cited more weight than I am. I do not think it excuses her behavior, only that it is a small point in her favor that she shouldn’t be thrown in jail. I agree that she should not hold that position. Maybe your point about her violating her oath can be ground for her removal. I’d fully support that. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/388 "2015-09-02T18:08:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This makes me uncomfortable. It would be the state punishing her for her religious beliefs. No–the state is saying “We are paying you money to do a job. If you do not do the job, you do not get money.” The end. If this dumb broad wants to keep suckling at the government teat for her trained-chimp level job, then she by God needs to do the work she’s paid to do, which is to rubber stamp marriages which the courts/legislature decide are legal. If she doesn’t want to put her name on those documents, she can quit or defy the judge and hopefully go to jail. If she does quit, she wins her “moral” victory. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/389 "2015-09-02T18:10:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree with you. I think you’re giving the point I made that you cited more weight than I am. I do not think it excuses her behavior, only that it is a small point in her favor that she shouldn’t be thrown in jail. She should be thrown in jail for contempt of court. If the judge says “I want you to jump for me.” you either say “How high?” or go to jail. Her job and or diseased convictions have nothing to do with the contempt of court charge. Or would you let a man get away with not paying court-ordered child support because he morally opposes them? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/390 "2015-09-02T18:13:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’ve already admitted you don’t want to die on Kim Davis’ particular hill, so what do you care? She may not be a hypocrite, but she’s definitely stupid. I don’t she where’s she’s stupid or not stupid. I do see how she is being a twit. I think the honorable thing for her to do would be to resign. I mean, if you’re given a job to do, and you feel you can’t do it for whatever reason, you’re in the wrong job. The only pushback I’ve been offering has to do with what should be done to her beyond having her removed from office. It’s a larger issue concerning what lengths the state should go to to force someone to act in a way that conflicts with their religious objection. It’s not about her for me, I think she’s a twit, it’s about the larger issue of religious freedom. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/391 "2015-09-02T18:13:49Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > I don’t think our problem is render-unto-Caesar. Our problem stems from good old Martin Luther and his “every man his own priest” idea. That idea invites every person to make up their own rules based on what they would hope their Lord and Savior would say if asked, and assuming that the Lord God Almighty takes a correct view of the situation. Protestants have always been cherry pickers. It is a fundamental doctrine of the faith. There is little point to getting upset because someone picks different cherries than you do. In what world is cherry picking (as you have defined it) only a Protestant phenomenon? Catholics have their explanations for why they interpret a specific Scripture a certain way, too–choices that can effectively negate the entire point of it. The Bible does contradict itself on a naive reading. The difference is, it’s much, much harder to change with new information. I expect the Catholic Church to be the last to accept homosexuality. There’s even a literalist interpretation that can be used to treat the homophobic stuff the same way we treat the misogynistic stuff. But there’s no real way to argue against Catholic. You just have to hope the Pope stumbles upon something. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/392 "2015-09-02T18:15:13Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No–the state is saying “We are paying you money to do a job. If you do not do the job, you do not get money.” > > The end. Not entirely. There’s still the matter of how every legally-eligible couple in that county gets licensed to marry in that county. The state has to have a way to make that happen without undue difficulty, this individual notwithstanding. > [@magellan01](#): > > It’s a larger issue concerning what lengths the state should go to to force someone to act in a way that conflicts with their religious objection. That is not an issue at all, bigot. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/393 "2015-09-02T18:16:26Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > She should be thrown in jail for contempt of court. If the judge says “I want you to jump for me.” you either say “How high?” or go to jail. Her job and or diseased convictions have nothing to do with the contempt of court charge. Or would you let a man get away with not paying court-ordered child support because he morally opposes them? I basically agree with that, as the judge’s orders are an attempt to remedy the situation without throwing her in jail. The out she has is to just resign. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/394 "2015-09-02T18:21:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then where do you think that word comes from? From that void in you where most of us have a spine? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/395 "2015-09-02T18:22:32Z")
Are people forgetting that she’s also ordered her whole staff to follow her personal religious convictions. It’d be very interesting to see what would happen if one of her clerks started issuing licenses in defiance of her orders. Or one of them sued her for violating their religious beliefs by ordering non0compliance with the law. Since her whole staff was supposed to be in court today, I wonder if they were questioned as to whether they all shared this same belief, or they were ordered to act as if they did. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/396 "2015-09-02T18:22:49Z")
I know you remember. Now try again. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/397 "2015-09-02T18:24:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From that void in you where most of us have a spine? You’re bragging that you are a _vertebrate_? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/398 "2015-09-02T18:25:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Since her whole staff was supposed to be in court today, I wonder if they were questioned as to whether they all shared this same belief, or they were ordered to act as if they did. Or simply to be reminded that they too had sworn to uphold the Constitution, to receive the same compliance order, and to be cautioned that they too could be held in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/399 "2015-09-02T18:25:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I basically agree with that, as the judge’s orders are an attempt to remedy the situation without throwing her in jail. The out she has is to just resign. Problem solved. That was the (refused)solution when this first started, dipshit. What’s the solution _now?_ ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/400 "2015-09-02T18:25:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Are people forgetting that she’s also ordered her whole staff to follow her personal religious convictions. > > It’d be very interesting to see what would happen if one of her clerks started issuing licenses in defiance of her orders. Or one of them sued her for violating their religious beliefs by ordering non0compliance with the law. > > Since her whole staff was supposed to be in court today, I wonder if they were questioned as to whether they all shared this same belief, or they were ordered to act as if they did. From this, it sounds like they share her convictions. If they didn’t, I think they follow the law and put her in an even tougher spot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=21)