# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/401 "2015-09-02T18:27:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I know you remember. Now try again. No need. I’m 100% correct. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/402 "2015-09-02T18:28:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The only pushback I’ve been offering has to do with what should be done to her beyond having her removed from office. It’s a larger issue concerning what lengths the state should go to to force someone to act in a way that conflicts with their religious objection. It’s not about her for me, I think she’s a twit, it’s about the larger issue of religious freedom. I agree with you in principle, but whatever sanctions she faces are solely her fault. If she didn’t want to do the job, she should have resigned the moment the appellate process was completed. She didn’t, so now she will be held in contempt, and there is nobody to blame but her. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/403 "2015-09-02T18:31:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No need. I’m 100% correct. You’re correct in that you see marriage being “diluted”? Your own choice of word, bigot. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/404 "2015-09-02T18:33:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That was the (refused)solution when this first started, dipshit. What’s the solution _now?_ Whatever can be legally done. I am not a lawyer, and certainly not one with special knowledge of Kentucky state law. But it is my guess, the there might be some way for the Governor to declare a crisis and appoint someone else and fire her. Another idea is for the Governor, or someone not quite so high to create a new position which handles marriage licenses, taking it out of her hands. At least couples wouldn’t be inconvenienced while things play out with her. I’m open to other solutions. Have any? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/405 "2015-09-02T18:34:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Since her whole staff was supposed to be in court today, I wonder if they were questioned as to whether they all shared this same belief, or they were ordered to act as if they did. I recall her saying in an article that two people did, one did not, and the other was ambiguous on it (probably not wanting to upset the boss). So there’s at least one who was willing to do it. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/406 "2015-09-02T18:36:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > …it smacks me of bad organizational design to have the process for suspending or removing or overruling a full-time official NOT available full-time, out of assuming that people would be honorable enough to resign first. Maybe Kentucky should consider moving this in the future from the Legislature’s to a statewide court or commission’s sphere of action. I found this in [an NPR story](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/02/436893283/heres-what-we-know-about-the-ky-clerk-refusing-gay-marriage-licenses?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news) today: > [@NPR](#): > > [According to procedures set forth by the Supreme Court of Kentucky](http://courts.ky.gov/commissionscommittees/CCCCC/Documents/SupremeCourtOrder.pdf), the only way for Davis to be removed from her position is if the Circuit Court Clerks Conduct Commission recommends that course of action to the chief justice and the chief justice agrees. > The process is complicated and would likely take a long time. So it looks like, at least as of 2014, there _ **is** _ a legal body outside of the Kentucky legislature that is empowered to recommend sanctions (including removal from office) to the KY Supreme Court Chief Justice. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/407 "2015-09-02T18:39:25Z")
Removal isn’t necessary, only suspension. Can the SCK or other court impose that? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/408 "2015-09-02T18:40:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I agree with you in principle, but whatever sanctions she faces are solely her fault. If she didn’t want to do the job, she should have resigned the moment the appellate process was completed. She didn’t, so now she will be held in contempt, and there is nobody to blame but her. I agree. The court has said, "Okay, we’ve heard you. Sorry, but you really do have to perform the duties you of your office. Your choices now are to 1) perform them, 2) not perform them and be held in contempt of court, or 3) resign. One thing I was pushing back against upthread was for people to sue her directly. As I said I think any suit should be brought against the office she holds and the entity that controls it, i.e., county, state, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/409 "2015-09-02T18:47:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think any suit should be brought against the office she holds and the entity that controls it, i.e., county, state, etc. Easy for you to say given that any money needed to cover such a suit wouldn’t be coming out of your pocket as a Rowan County, KY, taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/410 "2015-09-02T18:55:35Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Easy for you to say given that any money needed to cover such a suit wouldn’t be coming out of your pocket as a Rowan County, KY, taxpayer. But that’s just the point. If they feel the bite, they will advocate for their legislature to act and never elect someone like her again. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/411 "2015-09-02T18:55:53Z")
If she’s really born-again, and so her past immoral decisions are forgiven, shouldn’t she go back to her first husband? Jesus forgives, but aren’t you supposed to correct the mistakes of your sins? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/412 "2015-09-02T18:58:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re correct in that you see marriage being “diluted”? Your own choice of word, bigot. Wow, you’re really bad at the reading thing. I mean, you seem to be able to recognize the shapes and squiggles and reproduce them. But as far as what they mean, and how one thought follows form the next, it’s all some crazy crazy op art to you. I think Koko would have done better gleaning meaning and having a conversation that tracks. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/413 "2015-09-02T19:03:15Z")
Yes, you remember. Now show it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/414 "2015-09-02T19:05:12Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I found this in [an NPR story](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/02/436893283/heres-what-we-know-about-the-ky-clerk-refusing-gay-marriage-licenses?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news) today: > > So it looks like, at least as of 2014, there _ **is** _ a legal body outside of the Kentucky legislature that is empowered to recommend sanctions (including removal from office) to the KY Supreme Court Chief Justice. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Removal isn’t necessary, only suspension. Can the SCK or other court impose that? From a first reading on the document linked (thank you **xenophon41** ) I don’t see a provision for summary suspension. (Or maybe you’d need to show an irreparable harm from not acting immediately. ) As far as this case, the document does include willful or persistent failure to perform the duties of the office under the law as a cause for action. No grandfathering for what the law was when taking office vs later changes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/415 "2015-09-02T19:05:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > **Since her whole staff was supposed to be in court today** , I wonder if they were questioned as to whether they all shared this same belief, or they were ordered to act as if they did. Is it Thursday, 3 September 2015 already? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/416 "2015-09-02T19:06:23Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I found this in [an NPR story](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/02/436893283/heres-what-we-know-about-the-ky-clerk-refusing-gay-marriage-licenses?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news) today: > > So it looks like, at least as of 2014, there _ **is** _ a legal body outside of the Kentucky legislature that is empowered to recommend sanctions (including removal from office) to the KY Supreme Court Chief Justice. I am pretty sure NPR has it wrong. I found that too (as well as the relevany KY constitutional provision allowing the KYSC to govern clerks), but those procedures are for clerks of the _circuit_ (not county) courts. In most states those functions are subsumed in one office, but Kentucky apparently has separate ones. So the circuit clerk rules do not apply to her. > [@magellan01](#): > > I agree. The court has said, "Okay, we’ve heard you. Sorry, but you really do have to perform the duties you of your office. Your choices now are to 1) perform them, 2) not perform them and be held in contempt of court, or 3) resign. > > One thing I was pushing back against upthread was for people to sue her directly. As I said I think any suit should be brought against the office she holds and the entity that controls it, i.e., county, state, etc. Why should the county pay? The county has not done anything wrong and has no power to correct the situation. The wrongdoer here is an individual official who is committing misconduct. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/417 "2015-09-02T19:06:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Constitution she is sworn to uphold goes on to say, in that article: and there _was no religious test_ for her to hold office. Now that she is IN office she needs to do her job and follow the law. Nothing is preventing her from still holding her vile beliefs while she does that. No one is telling her that she is not allowed to hold her vile beliefs. What she has been told over and over again is that her vile beliefs have NO BEARING AT ALL on what her job entails and what she is required to do in her job. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/418 "2015-09-02T19:14:11Z")
[Here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/02/meet-kim-davis-the-ky-clerk-who-defying-the-supreme-court-refuses-to-issue-gay-marriage-licenses/) is an interesting article about Ms. Davis. He mother was the County Clerk for 40 years and Kim worked there as a deputy for 26 of them. She was narrowly elected and in her victory speech said, > [@Kim Davis](#): > > My words can never express the appreciation, but I promise to each and every one that I will be the very best working clerk that I can be and will be a good steward of their tax dollars and follow the statutes of this office to the letter. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/419 "2015-09-02T19:15:57Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > and there _was no religious test_ for her to hold office. Well, yeah, there pretty much was - that her holding and performance of that office (or any other) not be affected by religion. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/420 "2015-09-02T19:23:34Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > But that’s just the point. If they feel the bite, they will advocate for their legislature to act and never elect someone like her again. Why should those bringing the suit have to pay for its defense? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=22)