# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1461 "2015-09-30T07:16:22Z")
[Gawker has an article that calls the timeline of the purported visit into question. > [@](#): > > In the meantime, some quick detective works shows us that, according to Twitter, the Pope was busy from early morning until he left his final stop in DC on the 24 (the day of their purported meeting) at around 12:47 p.m. > > According to the Pope’s official itinerary, his flight to New York arrived at 5 p.m., which means his plane most likely took off at around 3:40 p.m. This would leave the the Pope and Kim maybe some time for a secret rendezvous—particularly if they chose to hold their meeting at the airport itself. On the other hand, that is an awfully tight window. ]([http://gawker.com/kim-davis-lawyer-pope-francis-thanked-kim-for-her-cou-1733718133](http://gawker.com/kim-davis-lawyer-pope-francis-thanked-kim-for-her-cou-1733718133)) The thing is, the claim is that the 15 minute meeting took place at “the Vatican Embassy” (more accurately called the Apostolic Nunciature to the United States) and that Mrs. Davis and her husband were there for 2 hours. By the way, I found [the Liberty Counsel press release](https://www.lc.org/newsroom/details/pope-francis-met-privately-with-kim-davis-and-encouraged-her-to-stay-strong-1). I call bullshit. BULLSHIT. BULLLL-SHIT! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1462 "2015-09-30T09:08:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Secret meeting with the Pope my ass. She did, it’s just her Pope’s Canadian so that’s why you can’t meet him. He’s totally hot and they totally Did It, though. (or, possibly, all of the Popes sent her PMs in support, so there !) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1463 "2015-09-30T09:44:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > She did, it’s just her Pope’s Canadian so that’s why you can’t meet him. He’s totally hot and they totally Did It, though. > > (or, possibly, all of the Popes sent her PMs in support, so there !) We are electing a new PM in a few weeks, so she’ll just have to wait for her next imaginary visit. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1464 "2015-09-30T10:41:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Gawker has an article that calls the timeline of the purported visit into question.](http://gawker.com/kim-davis-lawyer-pope-francis-thanked-kim-for-her-cou-1733718133) > > The thing is, the claim is that the 15 minute meeting took place at “the Vatican Embassy” (more accurately called the Apostolic Nunciature to the United States) and that Mrs. Davis and her husband were there for 2 hours. > > By the way, I found [the Liberty Counsel press release](https://www.lc.org/newsroom/details/pope-francis-met-privately-with-kim-davis-and-encouraged-her-to-stay-strong-1). > > I call bullshit. BULLSHIT. BULLLL-SHIT! Well, the NY Times also says it happened (and in the Vatican embassy). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1465 "2015-09-30T10:54:57Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Well, the NY Times also says it happened (and in the Vatican embassy). Selfies, or it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1466 "2015-09-30T11:01:37Z")
So what if she even had met with the Pope? She’s not Catholic, so why would that even matter? And I would totally agree with him that civil disobedience is a human right, but that’s not what happening here. She’s a government official whose job it is to uphold certain laws. Refusing to follow the law just means that she’s not doing her job. She absolutely has the option of not participating in upholding laws that she disagrees with for whatever reason, and that option means resigning her official position. This is such a clear case of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. ETA: Bah, forgot to finish my thought. Civil disobedience does not mean freedom from the consequences of not following a law. Continuing to hold her position and draw her salary for not doing her job is not cool. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1467 "2015-09-30T11:02:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Well, the NY Times also says it happened (and in the Vatican embassy). No, the New York Times is NOT saying that. It is saying that her lawyer says that. Why in the world would the Pope want to keep it secret? Did he make her a Cardinal _in pectore_? This pings my bullshit meter on so many levels. If it actually turns out to have happened, I’m going to be more surprised than I have been in a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1468 "2015-09-30T11:12:17Z")
I wonder what the chances are that her lawyers got an email supposedly from “the pope”, were told to fly to DC to meet, and then met an old guy in a pope outfit in a house with a big sign that said “Vatican Embassy” while he mumbled in an Argentinian accent… ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1469 "2015-09-30T11:23:42Z")
This is the same Pope who said it wasn’t for him to judge homosexuals, right? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1470 "2015-09-30T12:05:26Z")
I’m wondering what Ms. Davis’ position on the Roman Catholic Church was prior to her current “travail”. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1471 "2015-09-30T12:31:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder what the chances are that her lawyers got an email supposedly from “the pope”, were told to fly to DC to meet, and then met an old guy in a pope outfit in a house with a big sign that said “Vatican Embassy” while he mumbled in an Argentinian accent… She met with [this guy](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTpWWkTsHLiVtL87qGx3WKidrZaY8_9JCEA_dJi-xrMzQx0TrnVJSdrbol) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1472 "2015-09-30T12:41:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m wondering what Ms. Davis’ position on the Roman Catholic Church was prior to her current “travail”. Her denomination has been described as Oneness Pentacostalism.[They are not Trinitarian Christians-](http://www.gospeloutreach.net/opgospel.html)- > [@](#): > > The modern Oneness movement began at a Pentecostal camp meeting in April 1913 with one man’s “revelation” that baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38) was the correct fulfillment of Jesus’ command to baptize “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19). It is this basic misunderstanding of baptism that led certain others to conclude that Jesus Christ is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. > > To a Oneness Pentecostal, this is a defining issue. They believe that the Trinitarian view of the Godhead is a pagan invention of the early church councils of 325 and 381 AD. Because the majority of Christian churches hold to this view of the Godhead, they feel that all Trinitarian churches are paganized, tritheistic descendants of the Roman Catholic church. The story is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1473 "2015-09-30T12:47:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > This pings my bullshit meter on so many levels. You’re abusing your bullshit meter. When I heard this story, my bullshit meter just sorta half turned to me and said “You got this, right?” and I said “Yep. All good. I can handle this one on my own.” My bullshit meter then turned away again and went back to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1474 "2015-09-30T12:52:02Z")
cnn article claims there are pictures [QUOTE=[http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/us/kim-davis-pope/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/us/kim-davis-pope/index.html)] Mat Staver, the lawyer for Davis, said the session lasted 10 minutes and was just between the Pope, his client and her husband. He said pictures were taken and will be released at some point. He didn’t say when or why they weren’t being released immediately. [/QUOTE] Even ‘if’ true - it makes no difference - I’m sure she’ll claim she was blessed by the pope to continue resisting. well - actually - (from same story) > [@](#): > > “I was humbled to meet Pope Francis. Of all people, why me?” Davis said in the statement. “Pope Francis was kind, genuinely caring, and very personable.\*\* He even asked me to pray for him. Pope Francis thanked me for my courage and told me to ‘stay strong.’”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1475 "2015-09-30T13:03:00Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > This is the same Pope who said it wasn’t for him to judge homosexuals, right? He didn’t mean that homosexual “behavior” wasn’t a sin. He meant God judges sinners. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1476 "2015-09-30T13:05:10Z")
I’d be surprised either way this went. It would be pretty surprising to see such a humongous and easily-falsified fabrication released outright like that; not sources say that Kim Davis spoke to the pope, but her lawyers say _right here_ that she did A, B, C, D, and E and that the Pope hugged her and said this and gave her that. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a public figure release _delusional_ statements like that. It would be the end for her as any kind of credible figure. She’s already a fringe figure (she’s been the best advocate for making public officials do their jobs that there could be) and this would end even that for her. On the other hand, the Pope would be taking a massive crap on all the goodwill he received by taking time out of his short trip to meet with an extreme fringe figure, implicitly interfering in the internal governance of the United States by telling other public figures that they, too should _steal from the taxpayers_ and stop doing the jobs they are bound by oath to do. It would be a _fomentation of rebellion_ against the supreme authority of the United States, which is pretty much the highest level of disrespect a visiting dignitary could show to a country paying him the honor of receiving him in state. If it did happen, I think the penalty should be no less severe than a cessation of all relations between the United States and the Holy See. Either would just be bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1477 "2015-09-30T13:23:38Z")
Did her husband wear his Sunday overalls to meet the Pope? This is so far out there that it has to be true. But being true is so far out there that it has to be false. I guess we won’t know for sure until the photoshopped photos emerge. I wonder of her lawyer is making up her “statement”. She’s not the most believable person in the world but she doesn’t seem the type to make up such a tale. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1478 "2015-09-30T13:24:43Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’d be surprised either way this went. It would be pretty surprising to see such a humongous and easily-falsified fabrication released outright like that; Except her lawyers already did that with [this picture](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/09/29/3706790/liberty-counsel-kim-davis-retraction/) of a claimed rally in support of Davis in Peru. The rally was real but it took place in May 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1479 "2015-09-30T13:27:30Z")
Is it possible some anti-gay pro-Kim Davis bishop (or whatever) got her there, plunked her down along with a whole line of other special guests, and the pope blessed and prayed with them all, without actually knowing who the heck she was? It could have been a group of people that Francis’ American team thought were living good, Christian lives, and the pope thanked _them all_ for their courage, and asked _them all_ to stay strong. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1480 "2015-09-30T13:34:51Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No, the New York Times is NOT saying that. It is saying that her lawyer says that. > > Why in the world would the Pope want to keep it secret? Did he make her a Cardinal _in pectore_? > > This pings my bullshit meter on so many levels. If it actually turns out to have happened, I’m going to be more surprised than I have been in a long, long time. I’m disappointed too but the [NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) said that the story did not start with her lawyer. > [@](#): > > Mr. Staver added that he, the Davises and Vatican officials had agreed to keep the meeting secret until the pope had left the United States because, he said, “we didn’t want the pope’s visit to be focused on Kim Davis.” > > **The meeting was first reported by Inside the Vatican** , a publication edited by Robert Moynihan, an American who has covered the Vatican for many years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=75)