# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1621 "2015-10-03T12:14:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > God doesn’t like it when they try to lawyer the bible. Who do you think gave them such comical fashion sense? Win. But really, that’s the really hideous thing about fundamentalism/inerrancy: as a doctrinal system, it makes Bible-lawyering necessary, inevitable, and far too commonplace. It makes Christianity all about a dense system of rules, resembling nothing so much as the Pharisaism that Jesus routinely criticizes in the Gospels, rather than being about a loving God. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1622 "2015-10-09T03:38:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Win. > > But really, that’s the really hideous thing about fundamentalism/inerrancy: as a doctrinal system, it makes Bible-lawyering necessary, inevitable, and far too commonplace. It makes Christianity all about a dense system of rules, resembling nothing so much as the Pharisaism that Jesus routinely criticizes in the Gospels, rather than being about a loving God. Glad I read this before I responded, as I was going to say pretty much the same thing. It was Jesus himself who was so big on the spirit of the law. I even have a translation of the Bible that sees the “under the law” phrase used by Paul as meaning a legalistic version of the Law. (It’s pitched for Jewish converts to Christianity. It even uses Yiddish. I like it for the Hebrew-transliterated names.) > [@RTFirefly](#): > > And American conservative Catholics […are] all up in arms about Francis, with open talk of schism in places. And they’re the ones who should know that, in theory at least, nothing’s changed. so it’s obviously a Big Fucking Deal to them too. That’s precisely the evidence I use to say those who say he’s done nothing are wrong. Why are they upset if he’s done nothing? Before these were platitudes. Now the sexual stuff are platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1623 "2015-10-09T05:20:16Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Is there some sort of Vatican Embassy gift shop she had to pass through after meeting the Pope, and she just felt awkward not buying _something_? No clue about the Vatican Embassy, but there is a gift shop in the actual Vatican, just outside the entrance to the Vatican Museum. They do sell rosaries blessed by the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1624 "2015-10-14T02:12:52Z")
> **[Kim Davis' Lawyers: No Need to Change Marriage Licenses After Controversy](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kim-davis-lawyers-no-need-change-marriage-licenses-after-controversy-n443861)** > > "The Kentucky governor and Kentucky attorney general both inspected the new licenses and publicly stated that they were valid," Davis' lawyers said. Her charlatan, homo-obsessed lawyer said today that the altered licenses are valid. I’m not sure what prompted this, it’s just quoted in short articles, but I’m guessing the quotes may have come from their response to the last court action where couples filed contempt charges for her alterations. Unfortunately, video interviews and other public statements they’ve made about them being invalid probably don’t count as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1625 "2015-10-14T02:19:03Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > No clue about the Vatican Embassy, but there is a gift shop in the actual Vatican, just outside the entrance to the Vatican Museum. They do sell rosaries blessed by the Pope. So does he bless each individually, by the crate, or just flings a quick sign of the cross at the warehouse every once in a while ? More importantly, is there a refund policy for substandard blessings ? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1626 "2015-10-14T02:22:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > More importantly, is there a refund policy for substandard blessings ? Yes there is. Any purchaser who can prove scientifically that the well blessed items work better than the poorly blessed items gets a refund. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1627 "2015-10-14T03:00:42Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kim-davis-lawyers-no-need-change-marriage-licenses-after-controversy-n443861](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kim-davis-lawyers-no-need-change-marriage-licenses-after-controversy-n443861) > > Her charlatan, homo-obsessed lawyer said today that the altered licenses are valid. I’m not sure what prompted this, it’s just quoted in short articles, but I’m guessing the quotes may have come from their response to the last court action where couples filed contempt charges for her alterations. Unfortunately, video interviews and other public statements they’ve made about them being invalid probably don’t count as evidence. The article I read did state this was in response - and that they were ‘valid because the govener said they’d recognize the marriages’ - which is not the same as declaring the certificates valid. Davis Lawyer is using yet another misquote or poorly framed response - and its today because this was likely the last day to file a response (I was wondering why Bunning had’nt ruled on the cases yet). I do believe that Bunning will use the much publicized quotes of “not worth the paper their printed on” against Davis case - and I can’t wait to read the response. What the Gov’ said was that the marriages would be recognized - and this was also before the “by order of the fed court” shenanigans. the first few that were done did not have the extent of alterations as the last ones (after she was released). I doubt he was, at the time, speaking to the specifics of the alterations. In any event - the certificates do not meet the statutes as written - which is the case finally brougth before the judge. What I am wondering - these certs are only valid for 30 days (last I recall) - the marraige had to take place and be recorded within x days of issuance - and I haven’t heard tale of any of these couples getting married or the potential response to these certs being filed - which is supriseing (to me) - but likely held up due to the “shenanigans”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1628 "2015-10-15T03:38:10Z")
[ > [@Mat Staver](#): > > It has never really been about a marriage license — Rowan County has issued the licenses — it is about [the plaintiffs] forcing their will on a Christian woman through contempt of court charges, jail, and monetary sanctions. ]([http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kim-davis-lawyers-no-need-change-marriage-licenses-after-controversy-n443861](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kim-davis-lawyers-no-need-change-marriage-licenses-after-controversy-n443861)):rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1629 "2015-10-15T03:40:22Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Yes there is. Any purchaser who can prove scientifically that the well blessed items work better than the poorly blessed items gets a refund. Damn, that’s harsh. They really get you coming and going, don’t they ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1630 "2015-10-15T15:08:09Z")
[Judge Bunning has ordered Kentucky Gov. Beshear to decide whether or not the altered marriage licenses are valid](http://www.ibtimes.com/kentucky-clerk-kim-davis-update-judge-orders-governor-steve-beshear-address-altered-2141935). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1631 "2015-10-15T15:14:07Z")
Poor Bunning. This case has turned into a huge clusterfuck regarding the interplay of state and federal law (leaving aside the already-extant clusterfuck of issues about public officials’ freedom of conscience and what not). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1632 "2015-10-15T15:21:58Z")
[It turns out Kim Davis also hates email (and prolly also nosy reporters): > [@](#): > > Shawn Musgrave has requested all of Kim Davis’s emails (sent or received) from August 1st through September 16th. It would appear Davis’s current status as a pariah/hero (mileage varies greatly) has resulted in an outpouring of support/hate. According to her estimate, there are 6,000 emails responsive to Musgrave’s request. So, of course, she has decided to handle her office’s response in the least efficient way possible. > Hello, > > I have received your request and need to confirm, I can furnish you with all that you have requested. There are well over 6000 or so emails received/sent during the time period you have ask for. With that being said, there will be considerable time and paper consumed in the processing of your request. I am estimating approximately 40 hours of labor at 12.50 per hour to retrieve and print all emails, along with a copy fee of .10 per copy and the open records $3.00 fee plus postage for mail (estimated $100.00) for the request. This would make the approximate amount due $1,203.00. Once that amount is received, ($1,203.00 will be considered a deposit until all the records have been processed, if it is less, I will refund you the difference, and if more is due, I will contact you with the additional amount due prior to releasing said records), your request can begin to be processed. > > Respectfully, > > Kim Davis > Rowan County Clerk ]([Kim Davis's Approach To Email More Outdated Than Her Views On Marriage | Techdirt](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151012/05561032511/kim-daviss-approach-to-email-more-outdated-than-her-views-marriage.shtml)) When the emails are requested as emails and not hardcopies, Mrs. Davis balks and claims “I do not have the means to transfer electronic”. She continues to insist that she will not provide the emails except as printed material and for the fees already delineated. Her tone changes almost immediately to a very authoritarian “my way or the highway” stance as Miss Musgrave continues to try and get the emails as emails. The back and forth grows more contentious with each exchange, as shown in the linked story. Ultimately, Miss Musgrave will get the information, however circuitous and cumbersome a route she has to take:[ > [@](#): > > Because it appears nothing will move forward without payment and/or the District Attorney weighing in on the massive tree cull Davis has planned, Musgrave is crowdfunding the release of these emails over at MuckRock. The final total appears to be nearly $1,400. For 6000 emails that could easily fit on a single $10 USB stick/$1 blank DVD. > > What makes Davis’ response even worse is that when the emails finally arrive in paper format, Musgrave will have to spend his own time converting them back to electronic format. It’s yet another case where government employees begrudgingly follow the letter of the law while steamrolling right over its spirit. ]([Kim Davis's Approach To Email More Outdated Than Her Views On Marriage | Techdirt](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151012/05561032511/kim-daviss-approach-to-email-more-outdated-than-her-views-marriage.shtml)) So in the end, Mrs. Davis is being an asshole just to be an asshole. This seems to be a pattern of behavior for her, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1633 "2015-10-15T15:25:13Z")
Kentucky law actually [requires](http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=23060) that FOIA requests be responded to by mail or by in-person inspection, so it’s not really Davis’ fault. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1634 "2015-10-15T16:25:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Kentucky law actually [requires](http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=23060) that FOIA requests be responded to by mail or by in-person inspection, so it’s not really Davis’ fault. Meh. She could mail a thumb drive or CD. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1635 "2015-10-15T16:39:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Judge Bunning has ordered Kentucky Gov. Beshear to decide whether or not the altered marriage licenses are valid](http://www.ibtimes.com/kentucky-clerk-kim-davis-update-judge-orders-governor-steve-beshear-address-altered-2141935). > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Poor Bunning. This case has turned into a huge clusterfuck regarding the interplay of state and federal law (leaving aside the already-extant clusterfuck of issues about public officials’ freedom of conscience and what not). and I’m really hoping he takes the time to do it right - by statute, those licenses are invalid - period. but that doesn’t mean the state would not reconginze the marriages performed under them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1636 "2015-10-15T16:42:18Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Meh. She could mail a thumb drive or CD. That’s true. But she’s a stupid old hag and probably doesn’t know what those are. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1637 "2015-10-15T17:05:47Z")
Tell me where the Bible says it’s permissible for a Christian to use email. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1638 "2015-10-15T21:46:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell me where the Bible says it’s permissible for a Christian to use email. Or cars or planes or phones or electric lights or what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1639 "2015-10-15T21:47:44Z")
…or really loud airplanes? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/1640 "2015-10-15T23:14:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Kentucky law actually [requires](http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=23060) that FOIA requests be responded to by mail or by in-person inspection, so it’s not really Davis’ fault. Actually, your link doesn’t say that. Your link is to Ky law 61.872, last amended in 1994, about the right to inspect actual physical records at the government agency’s office. In [61.874(2)(a)](http://law.justia.com/codes/kentucky/2011/061-00/61-874), it says that the agency will make electronic or hard copies, depending on which the person asks for (unless the original is hard copy. They aren’t required to make electronic copies of hard copies but that’s not applicable here). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=83)