# Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757 "2015-08-13T18:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/161 "2015-08-18T03:15:53Z")
[ > [@](#): > > U.S. District Judge David Bunning ordered Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis last week to issue licenses to two gay couples, and ruled Monday that she is not entitled to any more delays. But because “emotions are running high on both sides of this debate,” he also stayed his decision while she takes her case to the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_GAY\_MARRIAGE\_KENTUCKY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-08-17-20-02-04](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GAY_MARRIAGE_KENTUCKY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-08-17-20-02-04))My initial reaction was, of course, “fuck you, Judge”, but then I thought well, maybe this could help settle some of the issues surrounding the RFRA, so I’m refraining from uttering the invective at this point. I still think it’s bullshit to coddle bigots and allow this kind of footdragging, but maybe in the long run it’ll be a net positive. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/162 "2015-08-18T04:28:41Z")
From the same story linked in my previous post: > [@](#): > > Davis testified that the Bible teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman and that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Court records indicate Davis herself married when she was 18 in 1984, filed for divorce 10 years later, and then filed for divorce again, from another husband, in 2006. > > Many Christians believe divorce also is a sin, and an attorney for the same-sex couples repeatedly questioned her about this in court. Asked if she would religiously object to issuing a marriage license to someone who has been divorced, she said “That’s between them and God.” Ms.(? Mrs.?) Davis has a helluva set of beliefs, eh: no internal consistency required, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/163 "2015-08-18T04:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Asked if she would religiously object to issuing a marriage license to someone who has been divorced, she said “That’s between them and God.” At least she was good enough to make it clear that when it comes to religious beliefs, she’s just another garden-variety hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/164 "2015-08-18T13:17:31Z")
Suppose we go with the idea that “oh, they can just get a license elsewhere”. Think about the consequences of this. County clerk is an elected position in many (most? all?) places in the US. In more regressive areas, people will start electing clerks who emphasize their religious beliefs against SSM or, if they don’t want to do it that explicitly will instead emphasize their religiosity and perhaps how “family friendly” they are (wink wink). Based on this they will win the elections and in those areas county after county will refuse licenses to same sex couples. The electorate will have effectively overruled SCOTUS and the Constitution via unconstitutional means. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/165 "2015-08-18T13:30:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [url=[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_GAY\_MARRIAGE\_KENTUCKY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-08-17-20-02-04](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GAY_MARRIAGE_KENTUCKY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-08-17-20-02-04)]My initial reaction was, of course, “fuck you, Judge”, but then I thought well, maybe this could help settle some of the issues surrounding the RFRA, so I’m refraining from uttering the invective at this point. What issues surrounding the RFRA? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/166 "2015-08-18T13:54:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > From the same story linked in my previous post: > Ms.(? Mrs.?) Davis has a helluva set of beliefs, eh: no internal consistency required, apparently. How do you know her brand of Christianity labels divorce a sin? I’d be more :dubious: of her comment of the Bible saying marriage was between one man and one women. Polygamy is all over the place in the Bible, and I don’t think there is any instructions in the NT that polygamy is no longer kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/167 "2015-08-18T16:05:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How do you know her brand of Christianity labels divorce a sin? I’d be more :dubious: of her comment of the Bible saying marriage was between one man and one women. Polygamy is all over the place in the Bible, and I don’t think there is any instructions in the NT that polygamy is no longer kosher. [ > [@](#): > > On the stand Monday, Davis described herself as an Apostolic Christian who believes marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman under the Bible — “God’s holy word” — and said she contemplated her policy for months. ]([http://www.religionnews.com/2015/07/22/ky-county-clerk-invokes-god-in-denying-gay-marriages/](http://www.religionnews.com/2015/07/22/ky-county-clerk-invokes-god-in-denying-gay-marriages/)) [Apostolic Christian Church of America: What we Believe > [@](#): > > Apostolic Christian beliefs are rooted in a literal interpretation of the Bible. ]([http://www.apostolicchristian.org/page.cfm?p=545](http://www.apostolicchristian.org/page.cfm?p=545))[ > [@](#): > > 1. Marriage is a lifelong union ordained of God in which a man and a woman of like mind, faith, and fellowship are united in the Lord in Holy Matrimony. ]([http://www.apostolicchristian.org/page.cfm?p=555](http://www.apostolicchristian.org/page.cfm?p=555)) Until I see some information that Mrs. Davis’s beliefs are different than the declared tenets of the Apostolic Church, I’m gonna stay with what I wrote. I found this in [an article at Christian Science Monitor: > [@](#): > > For her part, Davis describes herself as an Apostolic Christian who counsels prison inmates and goes to church three times a week. Though she says she believes sex outside of marriage is a sin, she doesn’t question couples about their sexual activity before handing them a marriage license. > > In her view, she told Judge Bunning last month that “God’s holy word” is the highest law. When asked who has the final say on constitutional matters, she paused, then said, “I don’t know.” ]([Kim Davis: Kentucky clerk refuses federal order to marry gay couples - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0813/Kim-Davis-Kentucky-clerk-refuses-federal-order-to-marry-gay-couples))The woman isn’t fit to be County Clerk, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/168 "2015-08-18T16:08:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What issues surrounding the RFRA? :dubious: I think there are a lot of issues with the RFRA; this situation would be one of them manifesting. If you’d like to discuss the RFRA in general, please start a new thread; I don’t want to hijack this one in order to have that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/169 "2015-08-18T16:21:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Personally, I think Miss Davis and her legal team are fucked up and totally wrong here. I think they have no legal legs to stand on and are just pissing in the wind in order to get piss all over everything, metaphorically speaking. > > So I would say to her: Fuck you. Fuck you and your stupid, bigoted, idiotic belief that led you to this place. I have to agree with this. Yes, I know the Constitution points out that you have the right to worship whatever invisible sky fairy you want to. But seriously, lady - you wanna follow your interpretation of Jeebuz to the point that you are refusing to obey the law? Quit your frickin’ job. Problem resolved, and you are no longer being an ignorant douche bag. At least in this one particular case. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/170 "2015-08-18T17:11:49Z")
^ :eek: ^ 🙂 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/171 "2015-08-18T17:23:02Z")
Eh, it’s not that atypical for a judge to delay a ruling pending an appeal. I figured it was a push as to which way he’d go on this. He knows this is a politically contentious issue, and also that it’s not really settled until the appeals process is over, so he punted on jailing or fining the clerk immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/172 "2015-08-18T17:35:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think there are a lot of issues with the RFRA; this situation would be one of them manifesting. In what way do you believe this case relates to the RFRA? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/173 "2015-08-18T22:43:07Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Eh, it’s not that atypical for a judge to delay a ruling pending an appeal. I figured it was a push as to which way he’d go on this. He knows this is a politically contentious issue, and also that it’s not really settled until the appeals process is over, so he punted on jailing or fining the clerk immediately. I wondered if he was trying to make it harder for her and her backers to play the persecution card. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/174 "2015-08-18T23:10:13Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I wondered if he was trying to make it harder for her and her backers to play the persecution card. If a reason didn’t exist, they’d invent one. They’ve never hesitated to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/175 "2015-08-19T08:02:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How do you know her brand of Christianity labels divorce a sin? I’d be more :dubious: of her comment of the Bible saying marriage was between one man and one women. Polygamy is all over the place in the Bible, and I don’t think there is any instructions in the NT that polygamy is no longer kosher. I think this is what us secular types find so fucking aggravating about this whole “defend biblical marriage” bullshit. It is manifestly a thin cover for homophobia. Christians have no interest in defending biblical marriage. Let’s go straight to the source: > [@Jesus](#): > > Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” . That’s Matthew 19:8-9, for those who are following along at home. So either ban second marriages, or STFU about defending biblical marriage. (This STFU is not directed at you, John Mace, but rather at the ‘Christians’ defending ‘Biblical marriage’.) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/176 "2015-08-20T12:59:38Z")
As an aside, here’s hoping a homosexual couple that hasn’t been able to get married in her county sue the fuck out of her, [like this couple in Texas](http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/uncucumbered/texas_clerk_gets_the_bill_for_her_religious_freedom_claim). Now, I doubt it will cost her anything out of her own pocket, but maybe it will make others in the community that are having their taxpayer dollars wasted or who are trying to balance a county budget much less likely to turn a blind eye to blatant discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/177 "2015-08-20T13:14:00Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Eh, it’s not that atypical for a judge to delay a ruling pending an appeal. I figured it was a push as to which way he’d go on this. He knows this is a politically contentious issue, and also that it’s not really settled until the appeals process is over, so he punted on jailing or fining the clerk immediately. It’s not really contentious. Whether a deputy clerk may be subject to sanctions for refusing to personally issue a license is one thing, and subject to honest dispute. Whether the large-C Clerk is subject to sanctions for refusing to allow her office to issue one is another issue entirely, and it’s pretty obvious that _Obergefell_ requires her to issue the license. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/178 "2015-08-20T16:09:38Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > I think this is what us secular types find so fucking aggravating about this whole “defend biblical marriage” bullshit. It is manifestly a thin cover for homophobia. Nice post/user name combo! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/179 "2015-08-20T18:01:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In what way do you believe this case relates to the RFRA? I can see it. At the very least, she’s asserting that her religion gives her the right not to enforce the law, is she not? Plus, isn’t there technically a way to accommodate her religious beliefs–empower someone else not under her jurisdiction to hand out the licenses? How does that align with the whole “least restrictive” test? Of course, I’m not a lawyer, which is why I put everything as a question. It just seems like there is always a way to accommodate religious beliefs. And I could see her attempt to enforce her religion on her subordinates being a problem, especially since she works for the state. She’d be violating the very law she’s appealing to by not accommodating their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757/180 "2015-08-20T18:26:34Z")
The RFRA only applies to interpretation of federal _statutes_ (or state statutes, in the case of state RFRA equivalents). The right at issue here stems directly from the 14th Amendment, not a statute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-rowan-county-ky-clerk-kim-davis/727757.md?page=10)