# Fuck you, San Francisco **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153 "2005-08-22T18:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/1 "2005-08-22T18:34:41Z")
for saying that the USS Iowa isn’t welcome there. It was all set up. Senator Dianne Feinstein had lined up three million bucks so that the Iowa could be towed there to become a museum ship at Fisherman’s Wharf. But she didn’t count on the short sighted and petty little shitstains that make up the city’s Board of Supervisors. They voted 8-3 to reject the ship, thus putting the lie to the assertion that all liberals respect military service. Not all do, and San Francisco apparantly is full of that worthless crowd that does not. [This pack of morons would reject a famed ship that saw service from WWII to the 1990’s, but isn’t connected with the current war at all.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/08/21/san_francisco_shuns_retired_uss_iowa/) > [@](#): > > But city supervisors voted 8-3 last month to oppose taking in the ship, citing local opposition to the Iraq war and the military’s stance on gays, among other things. > > “If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now,” Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi said. > > Feinstein called it a “very petty decision.” > > “This isn’t the San Francisco that I’ve known and loved and grew up in and was born in,” Feinstein said. I have said very nice things about San Francisco in the past. I’ve always had a good time when I’ve gone there. But with this action, the city is telling me that my service as a Navy veteran isn’t respected by them, and that they are in fact hostile to it. If they wouldn’t welcome this warship, they wouldn’t welcome me. It’ll be a long time before I spend another dime in that city. When I head out to the bay area, I’ll stay in San Jose. Hell, I moght even go to Stockton. It isn’t everyday you get to tour a battleship, and the Iowa is going to be docked there. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/2 "2005-08-22T18:57:28Z")
> [@Douglass Wilhoit](#): > > you shouldn’t make a decision based on philosophy. Really? You shouldn’t use your philosophy to make decisions? What, pray tell, are you supposed to use? > [@San Franciso Gate](#): > > [Supervisors said their rejection of the Iowa resolution](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/14/BAGLJDNMCA1.DTL) stemmed from a variety of factors. Some criticized the military’s "don’t ask, don’t tell’’ policy against service by gays and lesbians. > > Others said San Francisco, a bastion of anti-war sentiment, doesn’t want another military museum. Lukewarm support from Mayor Gavin Newsom and the Port of San Francisco left them worried the city might be getting into a financial hole it can’t afford. > > Board of Supervisors President Aaron Peskin, who voted against the resolution, reacted to Feinstein’s criticism by saying, "She’s entitled to her opinions. But I don’t think they reflect the sentiments of a majority of San Franciscans … (who) don’t want to see a warship docked here.’’ So you want the city to spend some unknown amount of money building a dock, providing services and supporting the museum for some _possible_ tourism dollars from visitors to a museum they don’t want nor think will necessarily be profitable? Do you think that laurels should be thrown at hardware just because it was military? At what point is honoring the service idolization? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/3 "2005-08-22T19:02:17Z")
Well I for one would like to say that sucks major donkey balls. I would have loved to go see the ship. Don’t they already have a ship by the warf? Or was that something else? I could have sworn we saw an old, military style ship (it was west of Pier 39 by an old, arcade museum…if that helps at all). I can understand being against the war and military policy, but this is a piece of HISTORY. Silly, all of it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/4 "2005-08-22T19:03:59Z")
Don’t worry, plenty of other cities or states would be happy to have her. New Jersey fought hard to get the New Jersey and even fought over which part of the state would get her. I would suspect that other Pacific Coast cities will line up to give the Iowa a home. Stray thought: I wonder how they would feel about the Navy pulling out of Frisco and moving to another city. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/5 "2005-08-22T19:10:51Z")
I’m not trying to defend SanFran at all (I think their actions are somewhat silly here), but wouldn’t it be cool to ship the ship to Iowa? Des Moines could prolly use another tourist attraction, eh? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/6 "2005-08-22T19:11:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I could have sworn we saw an old, military style ship (it was west of Pier 39 by an old, arcade museum…if that helps at all). Maybe this [one](http://www.hnsa.org/ships/pampanito.htm). ---
**Author:** ![KeithT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KeithT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/7 "2005-08-22T19:12:52Z")
Could be that there’s a still a shitload of bad blood from the Navy’s [coverup of the 1989 gun turret explosion on the Iowa](http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1999/08/18/navy/print.html): > [@](#): > > [W]hat most people remember about the disaster is that the vicious explosion in gun turret No. 2 was deliberately set off by a homosexual sailor – Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class Clayton Hartwig, 24 – in a murderous, suicidal response to being rejected by a gay shipmate. > > But that was false, as Thompson discovered. Hartwig was not gay, nor was his friend who died with him in the blast. They had not had a love affair, pleasant or tormented. Thompson traced the slander to Navy detectives who browbeat one sailor into making a false statement that gay revenge was at the bottom of the accident, then peddled the dirt to credulous reporters – in particular NBC’s Fred Francis. > > [snip] > > Why was the Navy so anxious to blame Hartwig for the blast? Blaming the victim deflected attention from the Navy’s own culpability. That culpability included bad maintenance of the 16-inch guns, unsafe working conditions, poor ship leadership and the use of half-century-old gunpowder. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/8 "2005-08-22T19:15:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Well I for one would like to say that sucks major donkey balls. I would have loved to go see the ship. Don’t they already have a ship by the warf? Or was that something else? I could have sworn we saw an old, military style ship (it was west of Pier 39 by an old, arcade museum…if that helps at all). It’s a submarine. The [USS Pampanito](http://www.maritime.org/tour/). > [@](#): > > Stray thought: I wonder how they would feel about the Navy pulling out of Frisco and moving to another city. That was a joke, right? The US Navy has been completely out of San Francisco since [1995](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/san_francisco.htm). ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/9 "2005-08-22T19:16:35Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Stray thought: I wonder how they would feel about the Navy pulling out of Frisco and moving to another city. They already did. The closest naval base to SF is the Reserve base at Moffett field in Mt. View. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/10 "2005-08-22T19:19:56Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Really? You shouldn’t use your philosophy to make decisions? What, pray tell, are you supposed to use? > So you want the city to spend some unknown amount of money building a dock, providing services and supporting the museum for some _possible_ tourism dollars from visitors to a museum they don’t want nor think will necessarily be profitable? Do you think that laurels should be thrown at hardware just because it was military? At what point is honoring the service idolization? Well, San Francisco does host a National Maritime Park, with other ships open for tours. One of them is a WWII-era submarine, the USS Pampanito. In addition, in the Fisherman’s Wharf area is a restored Liberty ship, the SS Jeremiah O’Brien. Of course, these well-attended museums were established before the current unpleasantness, by people inclined to be reasonable about American history. This contrasts rather starkly with the current board, to it’s detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/11 "2005-08-22T19:22:32Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > They already did. The closest naval base to SF is the Reserve base at Moffett field in Mt. View. Not any more. The Navy handed off all operations to the NASA Ames Research Center, and all of the housing units were handed off to the Air Force. (See my link above). ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/12 "2005-08-22T19:24:18Z")
Ah yes. So what is the difference? I mean, really? Why have that sub (and other ships) but not this ship? It seems to me that the new ship would be a lovely addition to their current displays. I do understand **Mr. Moto’s** point about the fact that the other exhibits were previously placed. Maybe I just don’t get it because I seperate a cool historic item from current political BS. Ok, maybe I’m just bitter because I love historic ships and now I’m going to have to travel further to see it. Damn diddly doo. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/13 "2005-08-22T19:27:35Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > They already did. The closest naval base to SF is the Reserve base at Moffett field in Mt. View. :smack: oops. I haven’t been in Navy since 1988 and did not know about the base closings. 😉 No wonder they don’t want the Iowa. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/14 "2005-08-22T19:39:10Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > They voted 8-3 to reject the ship, thus putting the lie to the assertion that all liberals respect military service. Not all do, and San Francisco apparantly is full of that worthless crowd that does not. > > … > > I have said very nice things about San Francisco in the past. I’ve always had a good time when I’ve gone there. But with this action, the city is telling me that my service as a Navy veteran isn’t respected by them, and that they are in fact hostile to it. If they wouldn’t welcome this warship, they wouldn’t welcome me. > > It’ll be a long time before I spend another dime in that city. When I head out to the bay area, I’ll stay in San Jose. Hell, I moght even go to Stockton. It isn’t everyday you get to tour a battleship, and the Iowa is going to be docked there. I (gay, liberal, anti-war, lives in the San Francisco Bay area, but not actually _in_ SF, so I can’t not vote for these putzes next election) was pretty pissed about this decision, too, but turns out there was an upside afterall: **Mr. Moto** ’s hilarious, self-important, self-pitying over-reaction. Don’t ever think you won’t be welcome here, **Mr. Moto**. San Francisco _loves_ drama queens. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/15 "2005-08-22T19:43:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Ah yes. So what is the difference? Didja read **KeithT** ’s post? [Another link](http://www.glaad.org/publications/archive_detail.php?id=304). [quote=I’m going to have to travel further to see it. Damn diddly doo.[/QUOTE] No you don’t. Plus, you can drive faster on 5 than 580, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/16 "2005-08-22T19:55:51Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > They voted 8-3 to reject the ship, thus putting the lie to the assertion that all liberals respect military service. Not all do, and San Francisco apparantly is full of that worthless crowd that does not. Wherein **Mr. Moto** raises a strawman, assumes facts not in evidence (that the board members are all liberals) and broadens a brush from 11 people to an entire city, thus putting the lie to the assertion that **Mr. Moto** can think for shit. Or at least that he can be bothered to when there’s “lib’ruls” to be bashed. Seriously man, this is lazier than pre-grated carrots right here. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/17 "2005-08-22T19:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Rep. Richard W. Pombo, R-Calif., has sponsored legislation authorizing the ship’s permanent move to Stockton. Feinstein has countered with a bill to open bidding to any California city. I’m rooting for Feinstein on this one, because I can’t wait for Victorville to get a crack at this and stick this big 'o sucker on the mud flats of the Mojave River. Gold, Jerry…I tell ya, pure Gold! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/18 "2005-08-22T20:00:33Z")
Indeed. Well there ya go. I also somehow missed the Stockton thing :wally But really, Stockton? I guess I can have a reason to go to Ye Olde Mystery House But yeah, I’m with Feinstein for the open bidding: you can do it San Diego!..San Diego is way cooler than Stockton. Anyway, I get that the Navy was stupid- not the first time, never shall it be the last. But once again: this is a piece of history. Would San Fran turn away some relic from Nazi Germany because it was associated with hate? (A silly example, I know-- just the first thing that came to mind… please don’t hurt me.) Was it specifically the Iowa? Or would they turn away any new naval ships?\* \*If this is mentioned in one of the articles, I apologize. Babysitting and skimming are my friends! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/19 "2005-08-22T20:01:49Z")
Wow, those 8 people represent all liberals with regards to the military? I guess I better learn who they, or get on their mailing lists or something. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/20 "2005-08-22T20:02:56Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > IBut really, Stockton? I guess I can have a reason to go to Ye Olde Mystery House [/SIZE] Isn’t that in San Jose? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153.md?page=2)