# Fuck you, San Francisco **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153 "2005-08-22T18:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/61 "2005-08-23T03:32:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Jesus Christ, man, listen to yourself. You sound just like **rjung** or **ElvisL1ves**. “Here’s something dumb that a minor elected official from the Opposition did that I disagree with! Clearly, it shows how stupid/dishonest everyone who voted for him must be!” You can usually spot that bullshit for what it is when they spout it, why are you having such a hard time recognizing it when its spewing out of your own mouth? And where did I say the voters were stupid or dishonest? My beef is with the idiotic decision of the board. And since they have the right by law to speak for the city in matters like this, this decision is in fact the policy of the city government. Their right to decide, surely. But these things have consequences, ones that go well beyond my decision not to visit for a while. Just as the screwups of Republican officeholders reflect on the party at large, so this decision will reflect on the Democratic and Green parties, at least in their incarnations there. If I blamed the decision on liberals, it was for a very good reason. Now, other liberals may claim that the board doesn’t speak for them on this subject. I’m sure that’s true, but they speak for somebody. There has to be a faction that supported this decision, otherwise it wouldn’t have been made. Accepting the ship would be an automatic decision in most places. When I criticized a subset of liberals that were so blindly antiwar that they wouldn’t honor WWI and Korean War veterans, and other Navy veterans, through this museum - it was these folks I had in mind. Apparantly they hold enough sway to cause an 8-3 decision in the board, a decision that would have been close to unanimous anywhere else, and in favor of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/62 "2005-08-23T03:34:23Z")
WWII veterans, I meant to say. Typo. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/63 "2005-08-23T04:09:25Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Apparantly they hold enough sway to cause an 8-3 decision in the board, a decision that would have been close to unanimous anywhere else, and in favor of it. Was there a bidding war for the USS Iowa? How’d Feinstein manage to pry it loose from [Newport, Rhode Island](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/newport.htm) if, as you say, it’s such a coveted property? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/64 "2005-08-23T04:15:05Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > And where did I say the voters were stupid or dishonest? Sorry, “worthless” was your specific term. > [@](#): > > My beef is with the idiotic decision of the board. And since they have the right by law to speak for the city in matters like this, this decision is in fact the policy of the city government. And yet your rant was not targeted at these specific supervisors, or San Francisco government in general, but the whole city. Which is “full” of worthless, “unchecked” liberals. > [@](#): > > Their right to decide, surely. But these things have consequences, ones that go well beyond my decision not to visit for a while. Just as the screwups of Republican officeholders reflect on the party at large, so this decision will reflect on the Democratic and Green parties, at least in their incarnations there. Good to hear that. I expect a respectful silence the next time some knob posts an “all Bush voters are morons” screed. > [@](#): > > If I blamed the decision on liberals, it was for a very good reason. Partisan masturbation is never a “good” reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/65 "2005-08-23T04:35:17Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Was there a bidding war for the USS Iowa? > How’d Feinstein manage to pry it loose from [Newport, Rhode Island](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/newport.htm) if, as you say, it’s such a coveted property? When the USS New Jersey was stricken, the cities of Bayonne, Camden and Jersey City competed furiously to host it. The ship eventually went to Camden. When the USS Missouri was stricken, Bremerton, Pearl Harbor, Long Beach and, ironically, San Francisco competed for the right to host her. The ship is now at Pearl Harbor, not far from the USS Arizona memorial. You can see in one afternoon where the war began for the US, and then stand on the same deck where the surrender documents were signed. When the USS Massachusetts was stricken in the 1960’s, schoolchildren raised money to bring her there. The ship is a museum at Fall River. The ship is a coveted property, which is why Senator Feinstein and Rep. Pelosi pushed through funding to bring the ship from Newport to Suisun Bay. The thinking was that this would make it far easier for San Francisco to get the ship. This thinking didn’t count on the shortsightedness of the board. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/66 "2005-08-23T07:23:31Z")
> [@](#): > > “If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now” So liberals are disrespecting servicemen by being opposed to the war in Iraq. And conservatives presumedly are respecting servicemen by being in favor of the war in Iraq. Personally, I’m not too happy with either of these positions; isn’t there an option for respecting our servicemen that doesn’t involve killing them? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/67 "2005-08-23T10:23:58Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > But yeah, I’m with Feinstein for the open bidding: you can do it San Diego!..San Diego is way cooler than Stockton. San Diego accepted the USS Midway a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/68 "2005-08-23T10:48:35Z")
And Alameda’s got the _Hornet_, to boot. I don’t know if San Francisco tried to or even had a chance to get that one. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/69 "2005-08-23T12:18:18Z")
[This article](http://www.sfexaminer.com/articles/2005/07/04/news/20050704_ne10_uss.txt) shows that San Francisco officials were trying to get the USS Hornet as late as a few months ago. She hasn’t been attracting enough visitors in Alameda, since the ship is very out of the way there. Of course, these latest actions by the city supervisors would probably mean they won’t get either ship. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/70 "2005-08-23T12:19:48Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > So liberals are disrespecting servicemen by being opposed to the war in Iraq. No they’re not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/71 "2005-08-23T12:26:58Z")
Agreed. The disrespect to veterans was by rejecting the museum, and doing so for crass and insulting reasons. Being antiwar doesn’t mean you have to be anti-veteran. Some antiwar activists are, though, and the majority vote of the Board of Supervisors reflects this misguided viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/72 "2005-08-23T13:40:56Z")
It one goddamned ship. It’s ain’t disrespecting servicemen to not want one damned ship, no matter it’s storied and/or infamous past. Some didn’t want it on principles. Some didn’t want it because they didn’t think it would be the economic boon others speculate. They added up to enough to not support the resolution. Get over it. Your asinne bitching about it says far more about your hysteria than it does about whether they support the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/73 "2005-08-23T13:48:23Z")
Damnit, **Miller** , Moto has every goddamned right in the world to be worked up over such a slap in the face to veterans. He’s served in the Navy, and time and time again on this board, he’s made it known in respectful [ways](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=264508) that he still cares a good deal for the military and those who have served in it – and not infrequently jackasses have come around to shit on his comments, not unlike the way the SF Board of Supervisors decided to shit on the Iowa and the Navy by making an idiotic parallel between a floating museum and support for an unjust war in Iraq. Now you’re flipping back and forth between arguing that Moto has no business commenting on what goes on in San Francisco and being appauled that he dare comment that the city’s actions reflect poorly on San Franciscans as a whole. Well, guess what: it DOES reflect very poorly on San Franciscans that they elected knuckleheads like that. Yes, just like I am embarassed by my city for electing a corrupt crackhead so many times. I grew up an Berkeley and was – and still am – acutely aware of how stupid things like creating “Indiginous People’s Day” and closing schools for Malcolm X’s birthday reflect not only on the city government, but also on the people who put them there. If you want to say that the people of San Francisco had no role in this whole mess, fine. But I will be absolutely shocked if this embarassment will have any effect on the political careers of any of those supervisors. ---
**Author:** ![Poonther](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Poonther](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poonther)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/74 "2005-08-23T15:05:58Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > When I said this was the doing of some liberals, I meant it. San Francisco is one place where their influence is unchecked completely by conservatives. And this is a bad thing? The rest of the country is more or less run by conservatives and barely “checked” by liberals and you get upset because we can’t have ONE place to ourselves? Why not start up a petition and bring the ship to D.C. or Virginia/Maryland if this bugs you so much. And finally, who really cares what they put at the Wharf? That area isn’t even the real SF. It’s like a mini-Disneyland. When I go for my frequent visits to the Bay area, I try to avoid the area like the plague. I mean who goes to SF to eat at Hooters? I do like seeing the tourist freeze in the summer when they wear their shorts and the fog rolls in. Long live SF and its liberals and diversity! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/75 "2005-08-23T15:51:43Z")
> [@Poonther](#): > > And this is a bad thing? The rest of the country is more or less run by conservatives and barely “checked” by liberals and you get upset because we can’t have ONE place to ourselves? Hey, you can elect who you want and run the place as you see fit. But if your elected representatives make a boneheaded and insulting decision, I do have the right to comment upon it. > [@Poonther](#): > > Why not start up a petition and bring the ship to D.C. or Virginia/Maryland if this bugs you so much. In Washington, you can visit the USS Barry, and also see a preserved Swift boat at the Navy Yard. The battleship Wisconsin is a museum ship in Norfolk. Baltimore, a city long run by liberal Democrats yet respectful of history, has moored there the museum ships USS Constellation, the WWII submarine Torsk, the Liberty ship SS John Brown and the Coast Guard cutter Taney. In addition, Baltimore is a strong contender to get the USS Forrestal and add her to this lineup. > [@Poonther](#): > > Long live SF and its liberals and diversity! As long as you don’t criticize decisions of the Board of Supervisors, I guess. That’s diversity some folks can’t abide. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/76 "2005-08-23T16:12:13Z")
You’re free to criticize, but other are free to call you whiney drama queen for doing so over this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/77 "2005-08-23T16:15:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Damnit, **Miller** , Moto has every goddamned right in the world to be worked up over such a slap in the face to veterans. Yeah, **Miller** , how dare you call **Moto** out for his broad brush, partisan dickery and general ass-waving? \Don’t you know he’s a veteran, dammit?\ > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > As long as you don’t criticize decisions of the Board of Supervisors, I guess. That’s diversity some folks can’t abide. Right. People have been just _leaping_ to defend the decision itself, and the honour of 8 guys on a board. Oh, no, hang on - they were taking issue with your, lessee, I had it right here … ah yes: broad brush, partisan dickery and general ass-waving. But never mind; I guess we’ve entered that part of the thread where you wrap yourself in dewy-eyed veteranity, and mope about the insult and the hurtywurtiness, and your right to complain. Jesus H. Christ, if all you’d done was complain about the decision, there’d have been nary a peep of dissent. But no, you had to come in waving your lib’rul bashin’ stick, and now you’ve got a two page thread and a new claim to victimisation. Well _done_ sir, well _done_. If you could just work something about the media in here, why _then_ you’d be cooking with gas. Or do conservatives use charcoal? I forget. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/78 "2005-08-23T16:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Agreed. The disrespect to veterans was by rejecting the museum, and doing so for crass and insulting reasons. > > Being antiwar doesn’t mean you have to be anti-veteran. Some antiwar activists are, though, and the majority vote of the Board of Supervisors reflects this misguided viewpoint. Okay, I want you to read this one more time: _“If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now.”_ That’s the only explanation we have on why the battleship was rejected. There’s no mention in there about veterans or servicemen, so how can it be disrespectful? As someone once said “Being antiwar doesn’t mean you have to be anti-veteran.” Personally, I think rejecting the battleship was a foolish decision that will have no effect on the current war in Iraq but will hurt San Francisco’s tourist trade. So the city council made a poor decision. But pretending it was something more than what it was is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/79 "2005-08-23T16:34:25Z")
I still want to know if it’s okay to call **Mr. Moto** an idiot for voting for Bush. Or, better yet, how about a bigot? I’ve defended him from being called a homophobe before, but he did vote for Bush, and Bush does support a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage. So, obviously, **Mr. Moto** hates gays, right? I mean, it’s certainly not conceivable that he voted for Bush because he agrees with him on some issues, and disagrees with him on other issues that he considers less important, right? If I’m missing something here, I’d love for **Mr. Moto** to point it out to me, because that certainly seems to be the thrust of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/80 "2005-08-23T16:45:27Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Okay, I want you to read this one more time: _“If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now.”_ > > That’s the only explanation we have on why the battleship was rejected. There’s no mention in there about veterans or servicemen, so how can it be disrespectful? As someone once said “Being antiwar doesn’t mean you have to be anti-veteran.” [Well, let’s look at what the supervisors said, and see if anybody agrees with their rationale.](http://www2.cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/07/12/n/HeadlineNews/SF-SUPERVISORS/resources_bcn_html) > [@](#): > > But Tom Ammiano said today he didn’t want the ship berthed in San Francisco because of the military’s treatment of gays and lesbians and its "don’t ask, don’t tell’’ policy. > > "It’s dehumanizing,’’ Ammiano said. "You are not allowed to be a gay or lesbian in the military except when there is a war and then when the war ends, you are kicked out.’’ > > Supervisors Ross Mirkarimi and Chris Daly also spoke out against the resolution, citing their opposition to the US occupation in Iraq. > > "I am sad to say I am not proud of the history of the United States of America since the 1940s,’’ Daly said. > > Supervisors Sean Elsbernd, Fiona Ma and Michela Alioto-Pier voted in favor of the resolution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153.md?page=5)