# Fuck you, San Francisco **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153 "2005-08-22T18:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/141 "2005-08-25T18:20:25Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > There are costs involved with berthing this ship, along with the use of other resources. And again, here, facts have to be considered. The Iowa is to be maintained in reserve status, which means the Navy will pick up the costs of maintaining her. That will be done whether she is hidden in Newport, completely unavailable for public display in Suisun Bay, or on display as a memorial and reserve ship at Fisherman’s Wharf or Stockton. The costs in this particular case are negligible. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/142 "2005-08-25T22:25:09Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > And again, here, facts have to be considered. > > The Iowa is to be maintained in reserve status, which means the Navy will pick up the costs of maintaining her. That will be done whether she is hidden in Newport, completely unavailable for public display in Suisun Bay, or on display as a memorial and reserve ship at Fisherman’s Wharf or Stockton. > > The costs in this particular case are negligible. Really? Well, that’s cool and all… but if the ship is one which might, at any point, be called on to go back out to sea and start blowing shit up, that further damages your attempt to claim that being anti-Iowa implies being anti-Veteran. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/143 "2005-08-26T01:30:47Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Yes. Eight people who happen to be the elected representatives of the people of San Francisco to the Board of Supervisors. Well maybe next time around they can be UNelected? It was a bonehead move. > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Can anyone show me the conservatives or Republicans on this list, on either side? > When I said this was the doing of some liberals, I meant it. San Francisco is one place where their influence is unchecked completely by conservatives. This had nothing to do with con/lib or Dem/Rep. It was the dong of a few morons. These assholes thought they could “grandstand” to whatever they think their own personal base is and fucked the dog instead. Hell, I would love to see that ship permanently docked in Los Angeles (just down the coast a piece). ---
**Author:** ![mojave66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mojave66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mojave66)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/144 "2005-11-25T06:30:28Z")
Follow-up: A couple of weeks ago I was at a Servicemember’s Legal Defense Network rally (they help GLBT service people who are getting kicked out) and one of the speakers was from the USS Iowa Memorial board. She spoke movingly about the USS Iowa, and about their projects when (not if!) they move here to SF. The upshot? The USS Iowa did an end-around the SF Board of Supes and started talking to different community groups, including GLBT veteran’s groups, to make compromises and to obtain support for moving USS Iowa to San Francisco. I don’t know much more of the backstory, but the upshot is that having an open, honest dialogue did the trick. USS Iowa is going to have a section on GLBTs in the military, as well as San Franciscan history, WWII history, the history of Asians in the military (in particular, Japanese-Americans during WWII who fought in Europe while their families were being sent to camps) and of course the history of the USS Iowa herself and the men and women who served on her. This kind of thing gives me a bit of hope. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/145 "2005-11-25T07:40:25Z")
Awesome news, **Mojave**. **Mr. Moto** , when can we expect your visit? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/146 "2005-11-25T09:46:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > For those of us (including me) who are not gay men… what right do we have to judge how gay people feel about the military? I mean, here’s an organization that is INTEGRAL to the US, one which is canonized and celebrated for its role throughout US history, an organization whose ex-members are celebrated above all others as patriots and good Americans, an organization which gets billions of dollars taxpayer money which we all must contribute, and this organization’s _officially sanctioned_ viewpoint towards you (the gay man) is that you’re an unworthy pervert who would only be worthy to join our exalted ranks if you promised not to be gay or even talk about being gay for your entire term of service. (An attitude which, by the way, is by FAR the most tolerant that it’s ever been, historically.) And gay men are supposed to just laugh that off and say “yay military! yay veterans! yay navy! yay Iowa!”. And if they don’t, it is THEY who are DELIVERING the slap in the face? I think you’re characterization of the thinking behind the military’s policy toward gays is unfairly harsh. The military doesn’t exist to make any one group feel good or bad. it exists to make us all feel safe. Any policy they have is practical, meaning that they beleive it makes for a more effective fighting force. I do not know the specific reasons they have for not wanting gays, and I will say that from what I can surmise, the policy does not make much sense to me. But I do believe they are acting in what they perceive to be a responsible manner. I can’t believe that they’re just a bunch of homophobes who find gay people “icky”. I would also keep in mind that we all derive benefits from the military: straight, gay, men, women tall, short, black, white, and brown, red, yellow, green, and pink. We should all want them there (in service0 and should be grateful that there are those who choose to lay their lives on the line. I’d go so far as to suggest that certain groups, e.g., gays and women, should be particularly supportive of a strong military, as if the day ever came that we were all living under a differnt flag, those are the groups that would likely suffer the most. And I’d like to take this opportunity to add that San Francisco is indeed one fucked up place. No, not everyone is a loony leftie, but it is disengenuous to try to paint a picture that it’s just a few people on this board or that. I live here. This is Hate America Central. Just drive around and look at the bumper stickers. I notice that if I drive just an hour away, the incidence of “Impeach Bush” and “Free Mumia” sightings plummets, and begins to be replaced with support for the war and the troops messages. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/147 "2005-11-25T16:52:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > I’m not trying to defend SanFran at all (I think their actions are somewhat silly here), but wouldn’t it be cool to ship the ship to Iowa? Des Moines could prolly use another tourist attraction, eh? Another? What’s the first one? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/148 "2005-11-25T17:21:41Z")
Moto, do all of us San Joseans a HUGE favor and keep your twisted ass in Stockton when you come to visit California. I did have more choice words for you, but your skin is so thin, we’ll just leave it at this. Sam ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/149 "2005-11-25T17:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > This is Hate America Central. Just drive around and look at the bumper stickers. I notice that if I drive just an hour away, the incidence of “Impeach Bush” and “Free Mumia” sightings plummets So, as one gets farther from San Francisco, the number of supporters of American values such as holding presidents accountable for their actions and not imprisoning people on trumped up charges drops and you interpret that as Hating America? Those are time-honored American values. If you cannot take living in a diverse America, why don’t you just leave? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/150 "2005-11-25T18:27:25Z")
Magellan, So “hate america central” to you, is the same as “Americans not thinking like fucked-up sheep” to me, then? I know it’s not necessarily en vogue in most states and communities to think for yourself, or stand by those thoughts or principles. Here, however, we do a pretty good job of standing by our principles and whatnot. I suppose that you living in the wrong place… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/151 "2005-11-25T18:35:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you cannot take living in a diverse America, why don’t you just leave? > > 😃 I did. I said I lived in San Francisco. Yes, I choose to push my personal comfort aside and stay here, at least for the time being, as the people are so enraptured by their false god of Political Correctness and are in dire need of help. I consider myself a missionary, pointing out to the ignorant natives the benefits of capitalism and tempering their hatred for religion, guns, the military, and common sense. Oh, how I long to be back in America… But, but I am needed here. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/152 "2005-11-25T19:01:10Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Tom Ammiano didn’t show commercials saying that he hated the Navy or disrespected veterans. But his actions here communicate that exact same message, quite clearly. You know, while I agree with you that the ship should have been brought in and that the supervisors are making a dumb, pointless, and just plain goofy political stand that has little place in their job and makes no real sense (like you say), you really are ALSO a dickhead. No, denying the ship berth does automatically NOT show that anyone disrespects _veterans_. Just because someone doesn’t do anything the Navy or you want, or even some veterans want, does not demonstrate a disrespect for veterans. Just because I don’t agree with everything my mother wants or does doesn’t mean that I hate my mother. But in your world of cheap, small rhetoric, that’s your bludgeon of choice. Veterans deserve respect for their service, but people like you that try to leverage that service for cheap political points are themselves violating that respect. You have a habit of pulling rhetoric like this, and every time it is in effect a cheapening the REASON we respect veterans: people from all walks of life and political persuasions who put aside politics to serve the people. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/153 "2005-11-25T19:15:32Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Because the ship is intended to be a World War II memorial. It’s the equivalent of boycotting the WWII monument in Washington because Bush and company invaded Iraq. Right: it would be stupid. > [@](#): > > One has nothing to do with the other. But by doing what they have done they have symbolically taken a shot at WWII veterans, and they have long been perceived as inviolate in this country. “WWII vets aren’t worth a monument because Bush sucks” is for all intents and purposes what they have said here. Again, and more even tempered for a nicer person, here’s where I don’t necessarily see the symbolic shot at veterans, not that there couldn’t ALSO be one. Totally misguided attack, I’ll grant you. And I don’t necessarily blame some vets from getting irritated that something they want is getting held up over what they see as being irrelevant to their lives and service, but then hey, that’s what happens when we have a government with all sorts of entanglements. Misguided people out to smack the other side often step on innocent third parties without actually having any deep-seated disrepect for them. If Republicans and Bush are going to wrap themselves and their actions in the flag, then when someone protests them, the fact that the flag gets dragged into it is partly their doing: they’re wrapped in it. People with real needs and problems are often hurt, in government, by grand political gamesmanship. That’s **precisely** why I would hope people would object more to politicians from every party wrapping themselves and their decisions in the flag and trying to use the respect due to servicemen as weapon for their decisions and positions or a sheild for their mistakes. These distinctions are important because the bad rhetoric can be very effective and hard to counter immediately when used as an attack. That’s why it needs to be called out in whatever context it shows up. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/154 "2005-11-25T19:23:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I consider myself a missionary, pointing out to the ignorant natives the benefits of capitalism and tempering their hatred for religion, guns, the military, and common sense. > > Oh, how I long to be back in America… But, but I am needed here. :rolleyes: Oh please. It’s a good thing we people like you, to show us the error of our ways and preach the benefits of going with the political flow. It must be hard to see the goings-on in the world with your head shoved that far up your ass… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/155 "2005-11-25T19:42:30Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Another? What’s the first one? The marina. Of course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/156 "2005-11-25T20:39:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And I’d like to take this opportunity to add that San Francisco is indeed one fucked up place. No, not everyone is a loony leftie, but it is disengenuous to try to paint a picture that it’s just a few people on this board or that. I live here. This is Hate America Central. Just drive around and look at the bumper stickers. I notice that if I drive just an hour away, the incidence of “Impeach Bush” and “Free Mumia” sightings plummets, and begins to be replaced with support for the war and the troops messages. I’ve lived here for thirty years. I’ve never seen a single “I hate America” bumper sticker. You seem to be confusing “I hate America” with "I disagree with **magellan01**. Again. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/157 "2005-11-25T20:48:35Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh please. It’s a good thing we people like you, to show us the error of our ways and preach the benefits of going with the political flow. It must be hard to see the goings-on in the world with your head shoved that far up your ass… Oh—thanks for reminding me. My responsibilities also include explaining concepts like hyperbole, especially when employed to humorous effect. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/158 "2005-11-25T20:51:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve lived here for thirty years. I’ve never seen a single “I hate America” bumper sticker. You seem to be confusing “I hate America” with "I disagree with **magellan01**. > > Again. Uh, you seem to be confusing me with someone else. Someone who claimed that he, or she, had seen “I hate America” bumper stickers in San Francisco. Either that, or you are unable to comprehend the meaning of the words I write. Again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/159 "2005-11-25T21:07:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Uh, you seem to be confusing me with someone else. Someone who claimed that he, or she, had seen “I hate America” bumper stickers in San Francisco. Either that, or you are unable to comprehend the meaning of the words I write. > > Again. > > 😃 No, apparently you are unable to comprehend your own damn words. > [@magellan01](#): > > This is Hate America Central. Just drive around and look at the bumper stickers. I notice that if I drive just an hour away, the incidence of “Impeach Bush” and “Free Mumia” sightings plummets, and begins to be replaced with support for the war and the troops messages. The clear implication being that if you have either of those bumper stickers on your car, you hate America. You have anything else to back up this “San Franciscans hate America” bullshit? Because if you don’t, I’d really prefer it if you’d shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153/160 "2005-11-25T21:08:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh—thanks for reminding me. My responsibilities also include explaining concepts like hyperbole, especially when employed to humorous effect. You should work on your delivery, then. Well-placed hyperbole can be hilarious. Abused, it turns into a saber-toothed sperm whale, and eats you alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-san-francisco/318153.md?page=9)