# Fuck you, Shenandoah! And you too, Confederate Railroad! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793 "2019-07-09T19:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/61 "2019-07-10T13:06:10Z")
Joan Baez “Nasty Man”, about Trump: That’s Steve Earle to her right. Here’s his song about Mississippi’s state flag: As far as Joan’s intent with The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, you’d have to ask her. I’m sure it ain’t “Confederacy, Fuck Yeah!” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/62 "2019-07-10T13:37:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Which reminds me, is Joan Baez still performing “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”? > \* > Like my father before me, I will work the land > Like my brother above me, who took a rebel stand > He was just eighteen, proud and brave, but a Yankee laid him in his grave… > The night they drove old Dixie down, and the bells were ringing > The night they drove old Dixie down, and all the people were singin’\* > > Glorification of the Confederacy, pure and simple. > > Anyone else covering the song these days? For one thing, no-one in their right mind would ever accuse Joan Baez of being a belligerent bigot. For another, the protag of “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”\* isn’t \*a proud Confederate soldier (“I served on the Danville train”). He’s a poor shitkicker who laments the ravages caused by the war and can’t wait to go back to kick shit on the farm. Did you miss the last line of the third stanza ? “You can’t raise a Caine back up when he’s in defeat”. Meaning, as far as he’s concerned the South can rise again in Hell. He’s glorifying fuck-all. Probably because the song was written by Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/63 "2019-07-10T13:41:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > “Musicaliphate.” Band name! ETA: oh wait, that’s what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/64 "2019-07-10T14:11:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Fair enough, but substitute “southern pride” or “southern values” for “the Confederate flag” in my post, and the point still stands. There’s hardly \*a \*southern way, and THE southern way people talk about is that of rural white guys, be they po’folk or plantation types. I’ll harp again on the Nawleens example : as “big cities” go, it’s hardly ever been known as a busy or hectic place. Yet people from there wouldn’t say they’re Southern folk (although they’ll beat the black/white off yo ass should you dare suggest they might not be creole) and self-described Proud Southerners would bristle at the notion of being lumped together with Nawleens. Almost this entire post is incorrect. People from New Orleans most definitely consider themselves part of the Southern Culture. I’ve lived here my entire life and only a small percentage really consider themselves creole. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/65 "2019-07-10T14:47:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What KIND of “stereotypes”? The blues are one of the most influential and important genres of music out there! Can we play guess the response? Bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/66 "2019-07-10T15:05:21Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > For one thing, no-one in their right mind would ever accuse Joan Baez of being a belligerent bigot. > For another, the protag of “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”\* isn’t \*a proud Confederate soldier (“I served on the Danville train”). He’s a poor shitkicker who laments the ravages caused by the war and can’t wait to go back to kick shit on the farm. Did you miss the last line of the third stanza ? “You can’t raise a Caine back up when he’s in defeat”. Meaning, as far as he’s concerned the South can rise again in Hell. He’s glorifying fuck-all. Probably because the song was written by Canadians. Principally written by a First Nations Canadian raised on a reservation. It was not a glorification of the south. It was meant to evoke a time, place and person in American history. In this case someone living in Virginia during the last year of the war which was a shitty place to be living in. Robertson was interested in showing Americana; the good, bad and ugly. Although the song is written from the point of view of a southerner during the Civil War it is far from glorifying. It’s bleak and grim. The South in the song is not a place you would want to be living in. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/67 "2019-07-10T15:14:49Z")
And of course there are many quality movies about the Confederacy, and tons of songs about serial killers (The Smiths “Suffer Little Children”, et. al.)- documenting something does not always equate to glorifying it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/68 "2019-07-10T15:23:28Z")
I lived in the former Soviet Union in the 90s and it reminds me a lot of the present in America. There was this period where Soviet heroes, imagery and their version of history were started to be called into question and all these older Russians couldn’t handle that there was any kind of re-evaluation of their past. Now, it’s old white America that is experiencing a shift in the culture and a certain segment of it just can’t wrap their head around why people might have a problem with the confederate flag. They can’t seem to understand that the reason that they never heard anyone complain about confederate imagery before now was that it is only in recent years that anyone gave a fuck what any non-white has to say. I saw the same thingin the former Soviet Union with old Russians wondering why the Estonians, Ukrainians and Georgians are getting so uppity. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/69 "2019-07-10T15:33:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Wait, are you saying the Nazis changed what certain symbols and words mean? That’s strange. Isn’t the Nazi symbol reversed from the Hindu? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/70 "2019-07-10T15:41:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Isn’t the Nazi symbol reversed from the Hindu? Yes, the Hakkenkreuz is the “wrong” way around. Also the Hindu one is laid “flat” while the Nazi one dances on one of its leg points. It’s meant to look alien, disturbing and “wrong” because the Nazis were extremely 90s comics about everything. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/71 "2019-07-10T16:03:37Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > For one thing, no-one in their right mind would ever accuse Joan Baez of being a belligerent bigot. Nor did I. It’s the song that has strong Confederate apologist overtones. > [@](#): > > For another, the protag of “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”\* isn’t \*a proud Confederate soldier (“I served on the Danville train”). He’s a poor shitkicker who laments the ravages caused by the war and can’t wait to go back to kick shit on the farm. You’d probably get the same argument from lots of Confederate Railroad supporters. Fighting for the South had nothing to do with preserving slavery, it was a bunch of poor Southerners defending their homes against Yankee aggression. Yeah, right. :dubious: If it disturbs you that icons like Joan Baez and The Band might be criticized for having recorded a song sympathetic to the Confederacy, consider also the Charlie Daniels Band and “Be proud you’re a rebel, 'cause the South’s gonna do it agin”. Do what, I always wondered. Secede again? Reinstate slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/72 "2019-07-10T16:09:49Z")
From the songwriters: Levon Helm recalls: “Robbie and I worked on the song up in Woodstock. I remember taking him to the library so he could research the history and geography of the era for the lyrics and make General Robert E. Lee come out with all due respect. It was another of those workshop songs we worked on a long time before we got it down. **Robertson’s take on the events that ripped the nation apart are not siding with any of the parties but rather describe the sentiment and human suffering of a confederate soldier at the end of and shortly after the war."** Comparing Robbie Robertson to Charlie Daniels is just _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/73 "2019-07-10T16:13:07Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > And of course there are many quality movies about the Confederacy, and tons of songs about serial killers (The Smiths “Suffer Little Children”, et. al.)- documenting something does not always equate to glorifying it. “The General” remains an awesome film even if the protagonist was a Confederate. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/74 "2019-07-10T16:14:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Nor did I. It’s the song that has strong Confederate apologist overtones. We’re really not hearing the same song. > [@](#): > > If it disturbs you that icons like Joan Baez and The Band might be criticized for having recorded a song sympathetic to the Confederacy, consider also the Charlie Daniels Band and “Be proud you’re a rebel, 'cause the South’s gonna do it agin”. … did you miss the last line of the third stanza \*again \*?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CaptainSnazzy7402](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captainsnazzy7402/32/57_2.png) [@CaptainSnazzy7402](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainSnazzy7402)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/75 "2019-07-10T16:18:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > ““Musicaliphate”" I feel like a really bad person for thinking that this is a pretty witty name for a band. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/76 "2019-07-10T18:12:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Nor did I. It’s the song that has strong Confederate apologist overtones. No, it looks at the point of view of someone from the South and treats them as an actual human being who might have a complex life, conflicting emotions, and experiences of their own instead of being a paper-thin purely evil Snidley Whiplash charature. Which is a cardinal sin for internet _ **WOKE** _ culture. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/77 "2019-07-10T18:35:23Z")
It takes some skill to lament the death of nuance and seeing the world from multiple angles while in the same breath caricaturing entire swathes of people with the heaviest, broadest brush within reach ; but damn if you didn’t pull it off with gusto there, **Darren**. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/78 "2019-07-10T23:10:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …If it disturbs you that icons like Joan Baez and The Band might be criticized for having recorded a song sympathetic to the Confederacy, consider also the Charlie Daniels Band and “Be proud you’re a rebel, 'cause the South’s gonna do it agin”. > > Do what, I always wondered. Secede again? Reinstate slavery? Get their asses kicked, spend the next century suckling at Uncle Sam’s teat while whining about welfare queens and selling out democracy to any racist conman who panders to their theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/79 "2019-07-11T00:02:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If it disturbs you that icons like Joan Baez and The Band might be criticized for having recorded a song sympathetic to the Confederacy, consider also the Charlie Daniels Band and “Be proud you’re a rebel, 'cause the South’s gonna do it agin”. > > Do what, I always wondered. Secede again? Reinstate slavery? Fuck Charlie Daniels. > [@](#): > > “This political correctness thing is totally out of control,” Daniels wrote in tweet. “When a fair cancels the Confederate Railroad band because of their name its giving in to facism (sic), plain and simple and our freedom disappears piece by piece. Sick of it.” And to head it off, fuck this guy from the Oak Ridge Boys as well: > [@](#): > > Joe Bonsall of the Oak Ridge Boys shared his own outrage over the decision. > > “I have played the Du Quoin Fair many times over the decades … however, I must say that canceling Confederate Railroad JUST because their name is CONFEDERATE RAILROAD is a crock of crap!,” he Tweeted. “These are good men singing good songs… God please help us all.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793/80 "2019-07-11T00:30:28Z")
Where ya been? Denying people who honor racist and treasonous parts of the US past is the WORST part of the PC culture! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shenandoah-and-you-too-confederate-railroad/836793.md?page=5)