# Fuck you. Shovel your sidewalk. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141 "2011-02-04T13:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/221 "2011-02-10T07:54:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Shut the fuck up already, you vapid bitch. Nobody wants to hear more of your self-pitying whining. > > You know how you avoid the problem of shoveling a sidewalk? Don’t fucking live in an area with sidewalks. Otherwise, you don’t get to be the personal arbiter of whether or not public walkways are passable just because you, personally, don’t use them. Otherwise I might as well start planting fucking trees in the middle of the street, because, hey, \*I \*don’t drive! You stupid selfish moron. I bought a house in an area without sidewalks. The city put one on my property without my permission or any compensation. Not that I don’t shovel it–it’s common courtesy. I just don’t like being forced to do so. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/222 "2011-02-10T11:54:21Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Wow so… you’re just really, really stupid then. I thought you were pretending. > > The floor of my house is for walking as well. Shall I make sure the door is always unlocked for you? _She’s_ stupid? Really? The floor of your house is for YOU to walk on. I don’t care if it’s all Hoarders up in there, that’s your problem. The sidewalk is for EVERYONE to walk on, and it’s your responsibility to clear it. If you don’t want that responsibility, don’t buy a damned house. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/223 "2011-02-10T14:02:08Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > I bought a house in an area without sidewalks. The city put one on my property without my permission or any compensation. > > Not that I don’t shovel it–it’s common courtesy. I just don’t like being forced to do so. I’m not sure anyone _likes_ shovelling their walks or the laws that compel you to do so. I don’t particularly like mowing my (fairly steep) lawn, either, but I chose not to buy a condo with full yard services included in the condo fees. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/224 "2011-02-10T14:15:44Z")
Rules requiring the clearing of sidewalks are a lot more defensible in my book than those on keeping the grass mowed. That’s just appearance; sidewalks are part of the basic public infrastructure. The whole point of _cities_ is to cluster and mutually support different land uses and life purposes; enabling people to get around in this system is fundamental to its success. All city streets should have sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/225 "2011-02-10T14:21:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The floor of my house is for walking as well. Shall I make sure the door is always unlocked for you? Don’t forget a welcome mat. Those are required too now. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/226 "2011-02-10T15:07:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Yeah, uh, this. No footprints = no one’s been there, kinda by definition if there’s enough snow to shovel. > > Now, granted, it’s possible that people are simply avoiding the uncleared sidewalk, but even if there’s a light unimpeding dusting of snow or drift I haven’t shoveled (because I was at work when the wind blew), I can count on one hand the number of footprints seen in five years living here. Great! That means they’re walking in the street! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/227 "2011-02-10T15:14:19Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > I have a question: Why? > > Walk in the street. Around my house a lot of people do that and let me tell you it really makes it annoying to creep down the already narrowed one way streets while you wait for the pedestrians to get out of your way. > [@ducati](#): > > If your taxes paid to clear the street, they damn well should pay to clear The City’s Sidewalk. So what you want is our taxes to be higher so you don’t have to go out in the cold and shovel your walk? If you want to spend extra money having someone else clear your sidewalk why wouldn’t you just hire someone to do it rather than pay the city to hire someone to do it? I’m already out there to clear my driveway, the ~40’ of sidewalk is nothing compared to that. Please leave me out of your plans to increase my property taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/228 "2011-02-10T15:17:58Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Great! That means they’re walking in the street! Thanks! Oddly enough, the street shows a lack of footprints in the same footprint-showing conditions. :dubious: It’s moot, because I DO shovel my sidewalk as required by ordinance, I’m just perpetually annoyed by it because said sidewalk dead-ends on my property, and it’s so un-trafficked that I don’t even get trick-or-treaters at Halloween. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/229 "2011-02-10T15:21:04Z")
Seriously, **Lily** , shut up. Nobody thinks you’re cute. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I think that given a mutually exclusive choice of forcing old and infirm people to shovel or pay for shoveling and telling them to move out of their homes if they don’t, the lesser evil is to just allow that some people can’t get the snow removed and it’s not that big of a deal I think given a mutually exclusive choice of forcing blind people to hire drivers or walk or take the bus or just never leave their homes, the lesser evil is to just allow that some people can’t see where they’re driving and it’s not that big of a deal > [@Frylock](#): > > The floor of my house is for walking as well. Shall I make sure the door is always unlocked for you? \*\*DianaG \*\*nailed this one. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/230 "2011-02-10T16:00:53Z")
> [@Diz](#): > > The proper response to people afraid of walking through a little snow? Fuck you, move farther south. There’s “a little snow,” and then there’s 2’ of snow, which most people consider more than a little, and which can be essentially impassible if certain entitled schmucks think they don’t have a responsibility to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/231 "2011-02-10T16:11:00Z")
> [@Diz](#): > > The proper response to people afraid of walking through a little snow? Fuck you, move farther south. That sounds to me like the perfect response to people who don’t want to shovel their sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/232 "2011-02-10T16:48:55Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I think given a mutually exclusive choice of forcing blind people to hire drivers or walk or take the bus or just never leave their homes, the lesser evil is to just allow that some people can’t see where they’re driving and it’s not that big of a deal I don’t think that’s the lesser evil. Not walking on a sidewalk isn’t that big of a deal compared to forcing people out of their homes because they can’t/won’t shovel it. If I’m old and I’ve lived in a house for maybe 20 years, and maybe in the past I used to shovel but now I cannot, I don’t see why it is THAT bad to give me a pass on shoveling, especially if I’m supposed to move out if I cannot do it. You want to draw an equivalent to blind people driving, fine, I won’t argue that it’s not comparable. But the “lesser evil” I spoke about isn’t to let blind people drive and hit others, it’s to make sure they stop driving. You shouldn’t just throw two incomparable choices together and randomly decide one is better than the other I don’t have much of a dog in this fight (because I don’t live in a place that snows) and I’ve been convinced that shoveling is a good thing, but I do disagree with you people who won’t make allowances for anyone for any reason. She’s old, poor, and has a history of heart conditions in her family, give her a pass. Be nice ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/233 "2011-02-10T16:58:23Z")
You don’t get a pass on social duties necessary to prevent harm to others just because people feel bad for you. If you feel bad for someone who can’t shovel their own sidewalks, shovel them for them. What if her sewage pipes were broken and oozing raw sewage all over? If she didn’t want to deal with those, would your response be, “Oh, just leave her alone”? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/234 "2011-02-10T18:15:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Oddly enough, the street shows a lack of footprints in the same footprint-showing conditions. :dubious: Tire tracks - do the streets show tire tracks? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/235 "2011-02-10T18:17:41Z")
If someone’s old and infirm then she needs to hire someone to do it. Hopefully she can find a neighbor kid who will do it on the cheap. If not, there are plenty of lawn and garden services that do snow removal in the winter that would be happy to come and clear her entire sidewalk and driveway, probably much better than she would have done it anyway. Yeah, it’ll cost money. That’s homeownership for you. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/236 "2011-02-10T18:26:02Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Not walking on a sidewalk isn’t that big of a deal compared to forcing people out of their homes because they can’t/won’t shovel it. I walk to work everyday, walk to get my groceries, walk my dog, and walk to the bus stop if I’m going further afield. In my older city the streets are narrow and busy enough that walking on them is hazardous, especially at night. ‘Not walking on a sidewalk’ isn’t an option for me. When I encounter an unshovelled sidewalk I just try to get by, but I certainly have fallen. I don’t own a car. If I break my ankle (have come close) I will no longer be able to get out of the house to go anywhere I need to go. For people who are older or disabled I suspect the danger of injuring themselves is much higher. It’s easy for those who live in the South or who are completely car-dependent to say ‘just don’t walk there’ or ‘just deal with it’. It’s not that simple, and while you may think that the ‘lesser evil’ is to allow older people (or disabled people, or just anyone who doesn’t feel like dealing with it) to leave snow and ice, I disagree. You’re just saying that their convenience is more important than anyone elses need to get around. > [@](#): > > If I’m old and I’ve lived in a house for maybe 20 years, and maybe in the past I used to shovel but now I cannot, I don’t see why it is THAT bad to give me a pass on shoveling, especially if I’m supposed to move out if I cannot do it. The problem with this is that one unshovelled walk can make a whole block impassable. You can’t just start letting some people get away without fulfilling their responsibilities because you feel sorry for them. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/237 "2011-02-10T20:02:20Z")
This is one of those threads, like the US election threads, that I read in bemused fascination. I find it difficult to understand why property owners would be forced to maintain public sidewalks and how this can be seen as perfectly natural. Would the residents of these cities be OK if the city decided that you were now responsible for plowing and filling potholes in the stretch of public road abutting your property as well? How about clearing blockages and fixing breaks in the sections of the main public sewer and water lines running adjacent to your property? That would really help cut taxes! The whole thing smacks to me of medieval ordinances requiring that you keep a torch or lanthorn alight outside your establishment after dark. From my point of view, one of the benefits of modern cities is that this sort of thing has become a public responsibility rather than a private one, and nightime lighting is now provided by the municipality. If there is a public good which is served when a municipality builds a road or sidewalk, there is a public responsibility on the municipality to maintain the said road or sidewalk, not pawn the responsibility off on the people who happen to live nearby. If you’re OK with taxes used for building a sidewalk, you should be OK with taxes spent to maintain it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/238 "2011-02-10T20:07:20Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > If you’re OK with taxes used for building a sidewalk, you should be OK with taxes spent to maintain it. But in many places, the city just plain doesn’t do it. Given that they don’t, who the hell is supposed to do it if not the residents? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/239 "2011-02-10T20:13:03Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > This is one of those threads, like the US election threads, that I read in bemused fascination. I find it difficult to understand why property owners would be forced to maintain public sidewalks and how this can be seen as perfectly natural. Yeah, it’s so disgustingly fascist! Next thing you know, they’re going to force us to pay for our neighbor’s _health care_, too! Simply _incomprehensible_. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141/240 "2011-02-10T20:18:04Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > This is one of those threads, like the US election threads, that I read in bemused fascination. I find it difficult to understand why property owners would be forced to maintain public sidewalks and how this can be seen as perfectly natural. Would the residents of these cities be OK if the city decided that you were now responsible for plowing and filling potholes in the stretch of public road abutting your property as well? How about clearing blockages and fixing breaks in the sections of the main public sewer and water lines running adjacent to your property? That would really help cut taxes! > > The whole thing smacks to me of medieval ordinances requiring that you keep a torch or lanthorn alight outside your establishment after dark. From my point of view, one of the benefits of modern cities is that this sort of thing has become a public responsibility rather than a private one, and nightime lighting is now provided by the municipality. If there is a public good which is served when a municipality builds a road or sidewalk, there is a public responsibility on the municipality to maintain the said road or sidewalk, not pawn the responsibility off on the people who happen to live nearby. If you’re OK with taxes used for building a sidewalk, you should be OK with taxes spent to maintain it. Anyone who wants to is welcome to try to make those things happen, or not. City decides to put forth a new bylaw that citizens have to fill potholes and whatnot? Put it to a vote. See how it goes. You want the city to plow every sidewalk? Great, get some signatures together, talk to your local politicos, get the bylaws changed, etc. etc. Go ahead. Nobody’s stopping you. But until then, you’re just someone complaining on the internet, instead of being a responsible citizen and good neighbour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-shovel-your-sidewalk/570141.md?page=13)