# Fuck you, Sky news,they weren't prostitutes, they were women... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2006, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556 "2006-12-10T10:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/61 "2006-12-11T20:13:59Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] - “A local serial killer has killed 5 doctors, all in private practice. Evidently the killer waits outside of their places of business and ambushes them after all other employees have left for the night. All doctors are advised to have a heightened sense of their surroundings and not to travel alone if they can help it.” [/QUOTE] Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: _“A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”_. Yeah, that’s a responsible level-headed warning to other sex workers. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/62 "2006-12-11T20:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: _“A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”_. Yeah, that’s a responsible level-headed warning to other sex workers. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] It’s a bit melodramatic, yes, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s an untrue characterization of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/63 "2006-12-11T20:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=brianjedi] It’s a bit melodramatic, yes, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s an untrue characterization of the situation. [/QUOTE] I don’t see any evidence that it’s a true one, either. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/64 "2006-12-11T20:30:58Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I don’t see any evidence that it’s a true one, either. [/QUOTE] Without getting into a debate on the use of anonymous sources, there’s this: > [@](#): > > One hooker, who did not want to be named, said: “We’re all afraid there’s a maniac on the loose. People feared the worst when Gemma and Tania went missing. > > “Now another body’s been found, that fear has turned to panic.” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/65 "2006-12-11T20:41:24Z")
[QUOTE=brianjedi] Without getting into a debate on the use of anonymous sources, there’s this: [/QUOTE] It’s easy for reporters to fish for quotes like those… > [@](#): > > _Sun reporter_: ‘Would you say people are afraid that there’s some kind of maniac out there?’ > > _Interviewee_: ‘Yeah, I guess.’ > > _Sun reporter_: ‘You may not yet have heard, but another body has been found. Do you think people’s fears might turn to panic?’ > > _Interviewee_: ‘Possibly.’ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/66 "2006-12-11T20:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] [QUOTE=williambaskerville] In fact, they were very young girls really, if I saw them standing in the street, my instinct would be to get them home safely. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Dewey Finn] They were 19 and 25 years old. At what point do they stop being “very young girls” and graduate to being adult women? [/QUOTE] I don’t know. At what point do they graduate from being young women to being prostitutes? [/QUOTE] My point was that whether or not it’s offensive to identify the murder victims as prostitutes, it _is_ objectionable to identify 19 and 25 year old people as “very young girls.” Perhaps in the UK, you can call a woman a girl without causing offense, but in the US, I’ve been criticized for doing so, so I’m more careful. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/67 "2006-12-11T21:00:39Z")
For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents: > [@](#): > > Mr and Mrs Adams, who raised their daughter in a comfortable home in the village of Kesgrave, near Ipswich, did not know she was a prostitute until she was reported missing on November 15. “I don’t want people to think of her only as a prostitute,” Mr Adams said. > > “The Gemma we want to remember was a loving, beautiful and wonderful girl. It was the nightmare of drug addiction which drove her to work on the streets. We are going through hell trying to come to terms with it. It has been shock after shock.” [http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20912138-2703,00.html](http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20912138-2703,00.html) (An article which still has a ridiculous headline, unfortunately) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/68 "2006-12-11T21:04:30Z")
(Bugger, just realised my ‘location’ is rather inappropriate for this thread…) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/69 "2006-12-11T21:14:56Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] (Bugger, just realised my ‘location’ is rather inappropriate for this thread…) [/QUOTE] Excuse me sir , can you account for your movements over the last few days. Just routine, you understand. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/70 "2006-12-11T21:18:40Z")
Meltdown? Seriously? What the fuck has happened to the Pit? And “well into”? I made two posts directed at a single poster’s inability to pay attention to his own claims. Gee, Finn, I never thought of you as a sensitive MPSIMS type. This brianjedi is obviously a joker, but you I never thought would make a big deal out of someone calling someone else a fuckface in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/71 "2006-12-11T22:31:47Z")
Come to think of it, why is it in any way disparaging or dehumanizing to identify a prostitute as such? Prostitutes deserve **respect** for what they do. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/72 "2006-12-11T23:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Come to think of it, why is it in any way disparaging or dehumanizing to identify a prostitute as such? Prostitutes deserve **respect** for what they do. [/QUOTE] I’m assuming this isn’t a massive whoosh, in which case read the quote from one of the parents I gave above. You might be on the opposite side of the moral spectrum from much of the media, saying that prostitution itself is no problem, but this doesn’t come any closer to a solution to the fact that merely using the word ‘prostitute’ has huge implications. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/73 "2006-12-12T01:52:43Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: _“A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”_. [/quote] “A town’s sawbones are in fear of a Ripper-style killer. Last night, local docs were terrified that a medical-professional-killer was on the prowl.” Nope, sorry. Still not seeing the cause for annoyance, outrage, or notice. [QUOTE=GorillaMan] For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents [/quote] Ah yes. Grieving relatives, the best source for an objective view of the salient bits of a news story. Which is more important, allowing other prostitutes to know that some Ripper-wannabe may be stalking them… or letting her parents cling to their illusions? [QUOTE=GorillaMan] You might be on the opposite side of the moral spectrum from much of the media, saying that prostitution itself is no problem, but this doesn’t come any closer to a solution to the fact that merely using the word ‘prostitute’ has huge implications. [/quote] Which gives people better safety information? -"Killer targets prostitutes who walk the streets, high class callgirls currently not being targeted. " -"Killer targets people. Those people happen to be women. One of the murdered woman’s parents said that she was ‘a loving, beautiful and wonderful girl.’. " Does it make more sense for “loving, beautiful and wonderful girls” to be worried, or prostitutes, **GorillaMan**? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/74 "2006-12-12T04:00:27Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] They were 19 and 25 years old. At what point do they stop being “very young girls” and graduate to being adult women? [/QUOTE] Why, that’s simple. When you no longer want to play the victim card. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/75 "2006-12-12T09:04:58Z")
Well, technically they were “victims” of murder, and that can’t be changed any way you slice it. Wasn’t one of the possible victims only 14? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/76 "2006-12-12T09:22:44Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] Well, technically they were “victims” of murder, and that can’t be changed any way you slice it. [/QUOTE] Possibly a poor choice of idiom, **Zab**. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/77 "2006-12-12T09:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Possibly a poor choice of idiom, **Zab**. :dubious: [/QUOTE] Not when coupled with the post prior to mine. Women young and not so young (no matter what they did for money) are being killed, then thrown away like trash. Their families are coping with this horror, and so the term victim does apply. I felt the prior poster was contributing to pulling this thread more off topic. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/78 "2006-12-12T09:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents: [/QUOTE] I don’t understand how the case could possibly have been reported without mentioning this fact, though. A serial killer is targeting people who are prostitutes. This fact needs to be reported, and the thread linking the victims is of massive importance. Did you object to the reporting of Tom ap Rhys Price’s murder, in which he was invariably described as “City lawyer”? If not, why not? After all, he was more than just a lawyer, and in that instance it’s not even like his lawyeriness was central to the story, as these women’s occupation is. Yes, this must be horrific for Mr and Mrs Adams, but the papers failing to report the basic facts would not bring their daughter back, nor would it even have prevented them from discovering the truth. Whether people see their daughter as “only a prostitute” is between the readers and their personal prejudices, for which the papers are not responsible. If the papers pander to such prejudices, _then_ they might be held in contempt, but I see no real evidence that the Sky article linked in the OP is guilty of any such thing. I don’t see the point in being surprised that the Sun is all agog with lurid headlines; as well be surprised by death or taxes. But I fail to see how any sensible reporting organisation can omit such a crucial fact of the story, or even reasonably reduce its prominence when it is so obviously the point linking so many murders. > [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Wasn’t one of the possible victims only 14? Nope. Ages 19 to 29, with one unidentified as yet. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/79 "2006-12-12T09:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] Not when coupled with the post prior to mine. Women young and not so young (no matter what they did for money) are being killed, then thrown away like trash. Their families are coping with this horror, and so the term victim does apply. I felt the prior poster was contributing to pulling this thread more off topic. YMMV [/QUOTE] My guess is **Malacandra** meant “any way you slice it.” YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556/80 "2006-12-12T09:35:44Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] My guess is **Malacandra** meant “any way you slice it.” YMMV [/QUOTE] Ah, well that is the first phrase I grabbed, and I think unconciously I did so because I wanted to cut through the bullshit and get to the core of the matter. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-sky-news-they-werent-prostitutes-they-were-women/383556.md?page=5)