# Fuck you ! To a Muslim **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319 "2008-12-16T00:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/41 "2008-12-16T21:31:16Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I believe you\*, I was responding to Kobal’s assertion that the “thumbs up” was “the German middle finger.” (Assuming I read his post correctly even) > > \*Besides it’s not like the Germans are foreign to that gesture, it may have missed a lot of people 20-30 years ago, but from what I’ve heard pretty much everyone there gets what it means by now… probably via the channel of us and our media teaching it to them. Errr no, I asserted that the “thumbs up” was the \*Arab \*middle finger. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. As far as I know, Germans flip standard issue birds 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/42 "2008-12-16T22:05:49Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Dead wrong, you are. Arab culture generally despises the sole of the feet and the things that cover them. If the object was to throw something at Bush then something more useful (like a rock) and less expensive to the assailant would have been used. Add also that the shoe is the interface between the sole of the foot and “zift” (literally, “asphalt” but also recalls general discontent, shit, disgust at the crap that gets all over the bottoms of your shoes) and the shoe becomes the perfect message for combining frustration, inconvenience, disgust and filth. Do you have a cite for that? If not, can anyone give a cite for the real reason shoes are insulting? > [@I Love Me](#): > > Actually, it is insulting that any Westerner would not take such an insult seriously and it smacks of ethnocentrism, cultural patronization and just a general sense of, “Ha ha ha! Those funny little brown people and their silly little customs! I pray they find Jesus Christ soon!” As Mark Twain said in a different context, “One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” So if it was done between Arabs, what if the receiver of the insult reacted like Bush? I assume you can give an authoritative answer. But it seems obvious to me that if it was done to the leader of an Arab country, the guy would be imprisoned and/or tortured and/or executed. What if Bush had called the idiot the son of a whore or whatever might be customary in the situation? Everyone would be criticizing him anyway. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. At least in our culture, it seems to be that if you return the insult, you’ve lost the exchange, because the purpose is to GET the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/43 "2008-12-16T23:28:03Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? Er, well…apart from getting online and Googling, which pretty much just yields rehashed news of the Bush assault, no. Not really. As an Arabic Linguist I was exposed to various elements of the culture, the foot thing was explained to us on numerous occasions by different native instructors. I don’t know if you’re asking me for which page of Nabila Post’s Guide to Etiquette in The Middle East we’ll find the foot reference on, because I’m not sure there’s an official list of dos & don’ts. You just sort of pick it up. Like you pick up that belching loudly after dinner isn’t polite in some parts of the world and the height of praise in others. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/44 "2008-12-16T23:35:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > We have documented cases of people telling knock knock jokes in Europe and N America. Most people there are at least nominally Christian, is there is correlation between the jokes and Christianity? Maybe. What does that have to do with shoe throwing? I’ve seen no evidence that shoe throwing has nothing to do with Islam, but I’m certainly open to the possibility. In two cases of shoe throwing I’ve seen or heard of (one of each) the thrower was likely Muslim in both instances. > [@AK84](#): > > You missed the point, its not that a shoe was thrown, its that a missile was thrown at someone that is the point. And secondly it may seem funny to you sitting at a computer, not funny when it actually happens. Wrong. As I’ve said before, I have seen a shoe thrown in the heat of an argument in real life, and I assure you it was very funny to me. It might not be funny to you, as you are very enlightened and cultured. I also find “preachers” yelling at people in parks funny. Is that bad too? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/45 "2008-12-18T08:05:59Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Dead wrong, you are. Arab culture generally despises the sole of the feet and the things that cover them. He is dead wrong, of course, but what’s wrong with that? Cultural insensitivity and ignorance have served our arrogance quite well. Just because most Americans (and other selfish knuckle-draggers) have absolutely zero curiosity or concern about other cultures and other peoples doesn’t mean there is anything wrong… how can we continue doing whatever the fuck we want if we stop and consider other folk’s traditions and mores? That way lies guilt and compassion. Don’t go there. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/46 "2008-12-18T08:13:37Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > At least in our culture, it seems to be that if you return the insult, you’ve lost the exchange, because the purpose is to GET the reaction. You wouldn’t believe the number of people who lose the argument in the Pit… ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319/47 "2008-12-18T08:58:14Z")
**Inigo** , if you throw ‘meaning’ into the google search, it’s much quicker;[Shoe throwing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_tossing#In_the_Arab_world:_a_gesture_of_contempt) - it’s more than just a sport… The '03 incidents are what I was referring to in my earlier post. It does seem to mainly involve throwing the shoes, but hitting an image of a person with a shoe or walking over an image of them are both valid alternatives, as the intent is to describe the tossee as being ‘beneath’ the tosser. The [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7783325.stm)’s take covers the ‘but throwing \*anything \*is rude’ angle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-to-a-muslim/477319.md?page=2)