# Fucked Up Shit In Society **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145 "2004-01-01T18:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lateralus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@Lateralus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lateralus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/21 "2004-01-02T03:28:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*Well why not cease the society-loathing twaddle and help improve it? \*\* I don’t hate society, I hate the fact that our civilization could be so much more than it is today. Unimaginably more. Oh, and I am doing (and will in in the future do) whatever I can to help society. I am only one person, how much can you really expect from me? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/22 "2004-01-02T04:05:45Z")
Keep your passion alive, **Lateralus**. Narrow your area of focus and join with others who share similar concerns. Just some suggestions: Amnesty International, National Resources Defense Council, Greenpeace, Common Cause. Joining an organization is a good way to learn _how_ to put your individual gifts to use. It also helps to lessen the frustration and bitterness. I commend you for caring enough to want to see changes. But remember, they begin with you. **Be** the changes that you want to see. Be more peaceful and less defensive when others tease you, for example. (It takes practice!) In my own opinion, the American Civil Liberties Union comes closest to attempting to see that the Constitution is upheld. They don’t please everyone, but they have supported both liberal and ultra-conservative causes. And you don’t have to be an attorney to join. Rosa Parks was one person. Nelson Mandela was one person. Thomas Jefferson was one person. That is what each of us is stuck with. That holds no one back. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/23 "2004-01-02T04:09:42Z")
Actually, wouldn’t the fact that you believe society could be “unimaginably more” improved, sort of disprove your own theorem (read:ramblings)? If one cannot even imagine the progress of which you speak, what on earth makes you believe such progress can be implemented. Lateralus said… **The human race does not have an infinite amount of time in which to evolve itself. We should be making the most of what we have. Yet, we still sit here, on this chunk of rock hurtling through space, mindlessly babbling about inconsequential topics, killing each other for no particular reason, etc. Why haven’t we moved off of this planet in order to inhabit better places? Why haven’t we moved ourselves out of our little neighborhood and stepped out into the unknown in search of that which we don’t know? There is so much out there that we could be applying ourselves to, yet humans seem content to sit here and rot ourselves from the inside out. Baffling.** Let’s do a sentence-by-sentence analysis this synaptic misfire, shall we? 1. How in the bloody hell do you know how much time the human race has? You’ve seemed to answer the question that the brightest scientific and religious minds have been working on for ages, if that’s the case, what the hell are you doing on SDMB? 2. Are you sure we’re not making the most of it? Are you at the cutting edge of societal development? The computer you’re using, did you build it yourself out of twigs, moss, rocks and potatoes, or did thousands of hours of research and development bring you your desktop buddy? 3. Yes, we still sit here on this chunk of rock. Where else would you have us sit? Perhaps Mars? Speaking of inconsequential topics… :rolleyes: 4. We haven’t moved off of this planet, because, generally speaking, (i’ll type slowly for you) this is the only planet that is habitable for human beings, which most of us are. Have you heard of NASA? We ARE seeking out the unknown, at a great cost by the way, to both the taxpayers and to the astronauts. If you’ve got a better idea than the folks at NASA, lets’ hear it, pal. 5. Yes, there is much out there for us, and we’re constantly on the hunt for it, though I’d like you to tell me what we’re not doing, that you’d like to see us do, because lemme tell ya, we’ve made more progress in the last hundred years, than the previous two hundred, so if there’s something we’re all missing, please, let us in on it. Yes we’re rotting from the inside out, we decay more and more every day, and the reality, you mental malcontent, is that the decay is a natural process, that no amount of progress can overcome or interfere with. So to sum it up… Perhaps you have an incredibly expansive mind, with no limitations, and a workshop with unlimited resources, or maybe, you just watch too much star trek, and should just shut up. I’ll leave it up to the group to decide. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/24 "2004-01-02T05:20:03Z")
There can _never_ be too much Star Trek! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/25 "2004-01-02T05:39:11Z")
Lateralus, Dear God, please tell me you’re some sixteen year old who just read Marx for the first time. If not, then I do belive you’re an idiot. > [@](#): > > …Humans have been around for ~160,000 years, and yet we are still piddling along in this measly existence? Well, back then we had stones and caves. How many minivans did each neandertal family have? > [@](#): > > Why haven’t we shedded our primitive instincts and embraced reason and knowledge? Maybe some of us don’t want to? Ever read _Walden_? Some people don’t want to have reason and knowledge. The Amish seem perfectly content in their simple way of life. The marsh Arabs of southern Iraq want to flood the land again so they can go back to the old way of life. Technology is great, yes, and science is wonderful, but those same advances have led to some of the worst crimes against humanity. Reason and knowledge are not panaceas which will cure the worlds ills. Think about it. > [@](#): > > Think of what we could have accomplished. We could have accelerated history by centuries or millenia. Instead, today we take two steps backward for every three forward. Oh, cry me a river. Two steps back for every three foreward is called progress, dumbass. We might have colonies in space by now if not for the dark ages. Guess what? It doesn’t matter now. We’re making progress. We could have flying cars and jetpacks and the ability to commune with plants, but guess what? We haven’t progressed that far. But then again, the ancient Egyptians didn’t either. And they were the most advanced civilization at the time. > [@](#): > > Looking back on the replies so far, it seems like no one is grasping what I’m trying to put across. Well, maybe if you stopped talking out of your ass, we’d be able to grasp your incoherent babbling a little more easily. > [@](#): > > This medium through which we communicate is laughably primitive. Well, yes, I guess language is rather clunky. But try to communicate your next post without typing it out. > [@](#): > > Why hasn’t society devised a way to combine our brain power and knowledge into one central source? And there’s the hook. What the fuck are you, some sort of sci-fi geek? Watched _The Matrix_ one too many times? What the hell do you want all of us to do, hook ourselves into a giant computer and turn all of humanity into one giant macro-organism? If you think that’s ever going to happen, fella, you’re smoking too much shit. Tell you what. When you ‘go online,’ I’ll make sure you get a fresh start and format your brain. Deal? > [@](#): > > 'Twould be a lot more efficient than dividing the thing 6 billion ways, what with our primitive tendencies interfering all the time and whatnot. Well, how many individual scientists have made great discoveries, versus groups doing so? I’d say a handfull of people thrown into a room is a helluva lot better than all of humanity hooked into a computer. Idiot. > [@](#): > > The human race does not have an infinite amount of time in which to evolve itself. And who the fuck are you to think that? Humanity has been around longer than you and will be around for a long time to come. And, better yet, who says we need to ‘evolve?’ I don’t see many humans with a better physical stature which would make us more adaptable in space or underwater or in the molten core of the Earth. Do you even know what the fuck evolution is? And if you’re talking about social evolution, ala Social Darwinsim, guess what? We’ve kinda put the breaks on that. If we hadn’t, well, the US would just have nuked the everliving shit out of the Soviet Union before THEY got the bomb. But, we didn’t. It isn’t suvival of the fittest out there. We HAVE evolved socially. > [@](#): > > We should be making the most of what we have. Yet, we still sit here, on this chunk of rock hurtling through space, mindlessly babbling about inconsequential topics, killing each other for no particular reason, etc. You know, today I helped clear a football field sized minefield so that the town I’m currently posted in could tap a new well. I made the most of my day and our hosts in this semi-barren land made the most of theirs. And WE, the US armed forces and the civilian peoples of Iraq (at least in my town) made the most of that minefield today. That’s neither mindless or inconsequential. It means that some Iraqi civilian won’t have to go out there and drill for water in an area where he or she could lose a foot. If your world of butterflies and rainbows and human-powered supercomputers gets too boring, come on over. We need to clear a few more mines. > [@](#): > > Why haven’t we moved off of this planet in order to inhabit better places? Why haven’t we moved ourselves out of our little neighborhood and stepped out into the unknown in search of that which we don’t know? You point, we’ll go. How’s about that? Oh wait…we have yet to find another planet on which humans can exist. Oh yea, to reach the outer limits of our barren solar system would take decades in the vehicles we have now. Ok, you keep pointing. We’ll figure it out. Or maybe you could tap your giant human-powered supercomputer to help? > [@](#): > > There is so much out there that we could be applying ourselves to, yet humans seem content to sit here and rot ourselves from the inside out. Baffling. So, oh wise and ‘jacked in’ one, tell us what YOU have done to get us to the stars or hook our minds together. Tell us what you’ve done to stop the rot and waste that humanity has become. Because all I’ve seen so far is a bitch of a kid who lives in a suburban world without any concept as to how the rest of humanity works. We can’t just hold our fucking hands together and sing a Coca-Cola jingle and hope for the best. The only thing that’s baffling is how you could think that the world is going to fix itself overnight. Its not. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/26 "2004-01-02T06:57:51Z")
Lateralus, I think what fushj00mang is trying to say is… you got some nice rhetoric, but it’s too much “idealistic” and not enough “realistic”. It’s all nice to have ribbon-covered words and pretty speeches about how we could all be better and join hands and sing in harmony while Disney-esque birds flutter around with their beautiful baby-blue eyes and deliriously jolly smiles… but if you want to get your acid-inspired utopian vision to be anything even remotely similar to reality, you gotta come up with a model to do it. Like you said, we’ve been around for 160,000 years… the fact that we’ve not achieved Nirvana is simply testament that it’s a difficult thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/27 "2004-01-02T07:09:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lateralus \* > \*\* At the smallest level, a single person or a family, they get along well. They don’t kill each other over territory, threaten with embargos, etc. \*\* Obviously, you’ve never been to one of my family reunions… ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/28 "2004-01-02T14:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Lateralus, I think what fushj00mang is trying to say is… you got some nice rhetoric, but it’s too much “idealistic” and not enough “realistic”. Idealistic? I’m almost insulted, since I consider myself fairly idealistic in many senses. I think the problem with **Lateralus** ’ post is that he’s totally off base. He has no bloody clue what’s going on and is simply ranting because he’s got nothing better to do. Reminds me of the stereotypically bad, high school, gothic poetry. A lot of “oh woe is me”, but not a whole lot of the “maybe there’s something _I_ can do to help”. In my opinion anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/29 "2004-01-02T14:47:19Z")
**Lateralus** , you raise some interesting points and ideas, but if you were looking for serious debate, Great Debates would have been a better choice than the BBQ Pit. That said, I will now proceed to seriously debate with you. 😃 You still think that the elected government is still running your country? The more I learn about United Statesian politics, the more surprised I am by the level of institutionalized corruption that contitutes political power dealing. You USians think that your government the ones making the decisions without seeming to realize that it is actually your big businesses that are pulling the strings, and from what I’ve seen on these Boards, the average USian will defend to the death his right to Capitalism. You guys are getting exactly what you want -a Capitalist government, run by Capitalists, for Capitalists. You’re going to have to change a helluva lot more than the government before you’re going to see anything change in your neck of the woods. And, in closing, let me say that Canada is not much better, before anyone sees the need to flame me as a hypocrite. Especially Alberta. Most USians would be quite at home here. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/30 "2004-01-02T15:11:02Z")
Socialism is just Capitalism in which only the government is allowed to participate. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/31 "2004-01-02T15:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lateralus \* > \*\*Does putting down others make you feel better about yourself? Try harder. \*\* Oh, I’m sorry. What I meant to say was “Your ideas are revolutionary. I feel as though awakened from a decades-long sleep. Everything seems so clear now. I wish to become your disciple. You are the savior of humanity.” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/32 "2004-01-02T15:22:55Z")
Well **featherlou** , you managed to condense **Lateralus** ’s rant about general world problems into yet another pissing contest across the border, which is what Lat was preaching against. Of course you illustrate that one reason we can’t resolve our problems is because of finger-pointing. It’s not MY fault, it’s HIS! So what’s it gonna be **featherlou**? You going to sit in the comfy comfines of your Calgary log cabin and finger-point at American big business, or are you gonna get off your Canuckian butt and DO something about it? Like say, realize that the majority of jobs, occupations and careers are because of these megacorps and to shut them down means the unemployment of millions of workers, the eventual slowdown of the world economy and certain worldwide disaster? It’s attitudes like yours that will lead to this planet’s downfall, you know. How can you BE so selfish? [pointy finger] IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT!!! [/pointy finger] ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/33 "2004-01-02T15:55:26Z")
Your ideas fascinate me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/34 "2004-01-02T17:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lateralus \* > > \*\* > > Humans have been around for [~160,000 years](http://www.warmafrica.com/index/geo/9/cat/1/a/a/artid/244), and yet we are still piddling along in this measly existence? Why haven’t we shedded our primitive instincts and embraced reason and knowledge? Think of what we could have accomplished. We could have accelerated history by centuries or millenia. Instead, today we take two steps backward for every three forward. > > \*\* So mighty one HOW do I personally evolve? Evolution isn’t about trying to get ahead and improve things. Evolution is like shit dude, it happens. ANd it happens slowly. Try studying something more complex than the news bits in USA Today. Oh, yeah and so now that you have identified the problem how do YOU personally plan to change things because I might be just fine and happy with society where it is. ---
**Author:** ![Lateralus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@Lateralus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lateralus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/35 "2004-01-02T17:49:05Z")
Well, that settles it. I thank the people who actually defended me, but this board of too many people who are looking to bash people at every available opportunity. Obviously the words I am typing are taking on a completely new meaning when they are processed. I really wish there was a better medium through which to explain myself. Well, I tried at least. I wish you all happy ‘lives’. ---
**Author:** ![Lateralus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@Lateralus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lateralus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/36 "2004-01-02T17:50:24Z")
:smack: Should read ‘this board is full of too many people’. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/37 "2004-01-02T19:01:45Z")
Essentially because humans are assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/38 "2004-01-02T20:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Knowed Out \* > \*\*Well **featherlou** , you managed to condense **Lateralus** ’s rant about general world problems into yet another pissing contest across the border, which is what Lat was preaching against. > > Of course you illustrate that one reason we can’t resolve our problems is because of finger-pointing. It’s not MY fault, it’s HIS! So what’s it gonna be **featherlou**? You going to sit in the comfy comfines of your Calgary log cabin and finger-point at American big business, or are you gonna get off your Canuckian butt and DO something about it? Like say, realize that the majority of jobs, occupations and careers are because of these megacorps and to shut them down means the unemployment of millions of workers, the eventual slowdown of the world economy and certain worldwide disaster? It’s attitudes like yours that will lead to this planet’s downfall, you know. How can you BE so selfish? > > [pointy finger] > IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT!!! > [/pointy finger] \*\* Hmm, a USian defending Capitalism. Never seen that before on these boards. :rolleyes. Did you even read my post, or was your knee jerking too violently? It’s attitudes like yours that keep Big Business steamrolling along, vacuuming up all the profits that can possibly be sucked out of any industry while returning as little as possible to the average worker. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/39 "2004-01-02T20:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*Hmm, a USian defending Capitalism. Never seen that before on these boards. :rolleyes. > > Did you even read my post, or was your knee jerking too violently? It’s attitudes like yours that keep Big Business steamrolling along, vacuuming up all the profits that can possibly be sucked out of any industry while returning as little as possible to the average worker. \*\* Hi Aldi. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145/40 "2004-01-02T22:03:17Z")
I laude your attitude **Lat** but perhaps the way in which you express it was a bit condencending to some. Hence the bashing you read. As many others have said, stop looking at changing the world as a whole. Think small first. Change yourself, your family, street, town, county…etc. There is alot you can do in your little part of the world to make life better for alot of people. If you stop looking globaly and look localy not only can you effect change easier, but you can see the effect and from that gain momentum to continue. None of the great world shakers of history started on a world stage, they all had a humble begining of some kind. Anyway, thats my .02! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucked-up-shit-in-society/222145.md?page=3)