# fuckers who don't have a clue about common courtesy in snowy regions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403 "2011-01-12T23:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/81 "2011-01-13T17:32:00Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > What’s the guy who can’t park in “his” cleared spot supposed to do? He’s got no option but to turn around and do the same thing. not really, but thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/82 "2011-01-13T17:36:22Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Not only is it stupid to expect others not to use the empty spot you cleared out, it’s impractical. > > All it takes is someone, somewhere to park into one of these spots, and the whole system collapses. What’s the guy who can’t park in “his” cleared spot supposed to do? He’s got no option but to turn around and do the same thing. And that guy then has no option but to to the same, etc, etc. But if every driver at least clears A spot for the day, everyone will have at least SOMEWHERE to park during the day without having shovel twice. You may not get YOUR spot, but you’ll get A spot. Of course, with your analogy, you skip over the fact it could well be a douche that started the whole cascade in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/83 "2011-01-13T17:43:13Z")
**Kathmandu** , **Lady of the Lake** , **billfish678** sorry to have hurt/offended you so deeply. I thought we were having a spirited,( and remarkably civil, for the pit), discussion. I was unaware that disagreeing with your position made me an asshole. I am sorry that you feel that way, I certainly don’t feel that way about you. > [@](#): > > ok. we know your opinion. you’ve said it about 15 times in this thread. Again, apologies, thought we were having a lively disagreement, my bad. Open apology to anyone else, I may have overlooked, who feels I was being an asshole, not my intention, please excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/84 "2011-01-13T17:45:52Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > does that help your understanding? A little. But doesn’t your management company have a mini-snow plow that can do individual spots? If not, they should get one. The last complex I lived in before I bought a house had this little golf cart with a snow plow attached to it and that thing was running around the lot all day cleaning up spots as people came and went. Best. Management Company. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/85 "2011-01-13T17:53:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Do tell. How the hell do they know you’re not gone for the day? How do they even know it’s not just a clear spot? And how does setting up, in the one clear spot, become “not cleaning it up properly”? You’re seriously asking me how a person who doesn’t clear out a single square inch of the property hasn’t “cleaned up”? He hasn’t done his part to clean up the shared resource because… he hasn’t cleaned up anything. > [@](#): > > I see the distinction between public and private, surely you recognize what they have in common is the parking is not assigned. What they have not in common is that a public space can be used by literally anybody, while the private space is owned and intended for the use of a very limited and very well defined population of people. The point is that in a civilized (non-douche) society, people recognize that there isn’t a fucking Snow Fairy cleaning out the spots, it’s their neighbors. Human beings with shovel in hand, doing hard physical labor, for no pay, in order to properly maintain a shared resource. You use that shared resource, and don’t participate in maintaining it, you’re a douche, a fucking freeloader, and it’s entirely right to criticize people who do it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/86 "2011-01-13T17:56:01Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > **Kathmandu** , **Lady of the Lake** , **billfish678** sorry to have hurt/offended you so deeply. I thought we were having a spirited,( and remarkably civil, for the pit), discussion. I was unaware that disagreeing with your position made me an asshole. I am sorry that you feel that way, I certainly don’t feel that way about you. > Again, apologies, thought we were having a lively disagreement, my bad. > > Open apology to anyone else, I may have overlooked, who feels I was being an asshole, not my intention, please excuse. I don’t think your being an asshole disagreeing with me. I think you are theorectically being one for not shoveling out your fair share of parking spaces. Though maybe you live in LA and all this parking space asshole behavior is totally theorectical on your part… ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/87 "2011-01-13T17:57:57Z")
Edit: billfish678 had already said what I was going to say so it feels silly to have my post here now. ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/88 "2011-01-13T17:58:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > **Kathmandu** , **Lady of the Lake** , **billfish678** sorry to have hurt/offended you so deeply. I thought we were having a spirited,( and remarkably civil, for the pit), discussion. I was unaware that disagreeing with your position made me an asshole. I am sorry that you feel that way, I certainly don’t feel that way about you. > Again, apologies, thought we were having a lively disagreement, my bad. > > Open apology to anyone else, I may have overlooked, who feels I was being an asshole, not my intention, please excuse. Well, this is a bit weird. I’m neither hurt nor offended, and certainly didn’t call you an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/89 "2011-01-13T18:13:30Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > Well, this is a bit weird. I’m neither hurt nor offended, and certainly didn’t call you an asshole. Then what are you doing in the Pit? I thought those were the only three poster states of existence allowed here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/90 "2011-01-13T18:23:52Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think you are theorectically being one for not shoveling out your fair share of parking spaces. Though maybe you live in LA and all this parking space asshole behavior is totally theorectical on your part… Are you kidding? Those are the worst kind! ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/91 "2011-01-13T18:55:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Where I live we had 4 snow days in 8 days, over 3 ft of snow fell - three days in a row. > > And no one I know, thinks they’re entitled to claim a spot because they dug their car out. I know all about digging out believe me. My neighbours don’t feel the way you seem to and they deal with way more snow, way more often. In fact I have never heard of this being an issue. Never, ever heard it, in over 50 yrs, living in different locations in the snowbelt. People don’t seem to thinks it appropriate to be so petty around here. Perhaps they are just better at sharing, I guess, or perhaps understanding the **actual** meaning of non assigned. Regardless, I am sorry if my challenging what you hold to be true, makes me an offensive freeloader. Perhaps in future just post, please no challenges, commiseration only, after your venting rants. And sorry **Kathmandu** , your post seemed to say I was so ridiculous for participating in back and forth, that I should just stop. Sorry if I mistook that for having upset you! ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/92 "2011-01-13T18:58:34Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > A little. But doesn’t your management company have a mini-snow plow that can do individual spots? If not, they should get one. The last complex I lived in before I bought a house had this little golf cart with a snow plow attached to it and that thing was running around the lot all day cleaning up spots as people came and went. > > Best. Management Company. Ever. Now the image of a golf cart with a plow trying to move 2’ of snow is going to be stuck in my head all day. 🙂 I think it would be interesting to know if (when there isn’t snow) people there tend to park in the same place anyway. Pick any school cafeteria and I bet the majority of kids eat at the same table the majority of the time. Same thing if there aren’t assigned seats in class. People like thinking they own things, even if they really don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/93 "2011-01-13T19:04:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I know all about digging out believe me. My neighbours don’t feel the way you seem to and they deal with way more snow, way more often. In fact I have never heard of this being an issue. Never, ever heard it, in over 50 yrs, living in different locations in the snowbelt. People don’t seem to thinks it appropriate to be so petty around here. Perhaps they are just better at sharing, I guess, or perhaps understanding the **actual** meaning of non assigned. do you not believe in common courtesy/social norms/unwritten rules/informal-but-not-legally-enforceable-customs/etc. at all? or do you just think that this scenario is unworthy of falling under a common courtesy/social norm/unwritten rule rule? if it’s the former, you’re nuts. if it’s the latter, yes, we know that you don’t think it is. we’ve been told numerous times. many do though. and, you’ve mentioned it numerous times in this thread - who exactly is being petty? me for bitching about it? i’m not doing anything, so i can’t be petty about it. but i do find it curious that you claim that you guys are better at sharing wherever you’ve lived, but you can’t wrap your head around why this scenario is offensive to some. that’s actually the most bizarre thing about your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/94 "2011-01-13T19:09:06Z")
Sure, it is a little discourteous of the “free rider.” But I guess I so much expect a lack of courtesy whenever I encounter anyone outside of the 4 walls of my home, that it would barely even register. I grew up in Chicago without a garage, so my dad parked on the street. Never cared for or practiced “dibs” - where folk put old chairs and such in the spaces they cleared. It is a public street. IMO, your options are to either clear the space and hope it is there when you get back, or don’t clear your space. _(Actually - if you really cared about it, you could try to coordinate a shovelling party - where everyone worked together.)_ I don’t know that any analogy works - or is needed. The simple fact is that if you don’t own it or pay for it, you have ZERO right to it. There are just too many factors: -You clean the spot and then go away for the weekend. Everyone else is supposed to keep the spot clear - even if they are just running inside for a few minutes? -You and I both clear our spots and go to work. We return at the same time, and someone has taken one of our spots. Who gets the only clear one? -You and your roomate are young and healthy, and your neighbor is old and frail. You may feel very strongly one way or another - but you are accomplishing little other than frustrating yourself if you think there is a snowball’s chance in hell of getting any group larger than 1 to see things exactly as you do. Heck, this is especially true when you increase the anonymity in settings such as an apartment building/city. Due to a new job I recently rented an apartment in the Indiana snow belt for weekdays. We’ve been getting quite a bit of snow. They have a plow service which does a decent-but-not-great job, and they actually asked residents to park in cleared spots, so that they could get to other spots. Quite different than the OP’s situation, but just wanted to mention. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/95 "2011-01-13T19:21:45Z")
For me, common courtesy extends to not being so petty about shared parking, so as to declare one space ‘yours’, for any reason. Where I live it is the norm, that is why it’s hard to understand. I live where there is way, way more snow, yet we never see such conflicts, so naturally I feel it’s a better and more mature solution. It strikes me as childish, as though you were unaware of what non assigned parking would entail. If you think I’m a freeloader, because I think you should be an adult and accept that, like everyone else, when you leave the lot, you take your chances, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/96 "2011-01-13T19:28:09Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > For me, common courtesy extends to not being so petty about shared parking, so as to declare one space ‘yours’, for any reason. Where I live it is the norm, that is why it’s hard to understand. I live where there is way, way more snow, yet we never see such conflicts, so naturally I feel it’s a better and more mature solution. It strikes me as childish, as though you were unaware of what non assigned parking would entail. > > If you think I’m a freeloader, because I think you should be an adult and accept that, like everyone else, when you leave the lot, you take your chances, so be it. i didn’t declare it as mine except as my complaint in this thread. i exerted no claim to title, ownership, informal ownership, or the like. i’m just a bit teed off that certain people can’t see in front of their own face and don’t realize that that magically nicely-cleaned spot didn’t get that way from pixie dust. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/97 "2011-01-13T19:31:14Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Due to a new job I recently rented an apartment in the Indiana snow belt for weekdays. We’ve been getting quite a bit of snow. They have a plow service which does a decent-but-not-great job, and they actually asked residents to park in cleared spots, so that they could get to other spots. Quite different than the OP’s situation, but just wanted to mention. Hell, Its the polar opposite of the OP’scenario for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![orderfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orderfire/32/10908_2.png) [@orderfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orderfire)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/98 "2011-01-13T19:46:21Z")
Uh oh. This spot-shoveling business is getting serious in Hartford. [http://articles.courant.com/2011-01-12/news/hc-man-died-in-snow-shovel-fight-0112\_1\_breach-curt-stoldt-police](http://articles.courant.com/2011-01-12/news/hc-man-died-in-snow-shovel-fight-0112_1_breach-curt-stoldt-police) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/99 "2011-01-13T19:52:01Z")
> [@](#): > > i exerted no claim Yes, see that’s the thing that I’m not getting. You leave the lot, and yet expect it to be free for you, upon your return. I’m not seeing that as ‘exerting no claim’. What they are seeing is other adults who comprehended what no assigned parking would entail. Life’s a lot less conflicted if adults understand risk and sharing, it seems. Those who accept the circumstances they’ve agreed to, and inherent risk, once driving away, by not being petty, create less conflict and seem more mature to me, is all. And it seems the very basis of courtesy to not create unnecessary conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/100 "2011-01-13T21:17:38Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Yes, see that’s the thing that I’m not getting. You leave the lot, and yet expect it to be free for you, upon your return. I’m not seeing that as ‘exerting no claim’. > > What they are seeing is other adults who comprehended what no assigned parking would entail. Life’s a lot less conflicted if adults understand risk and sharing, it seems. Those who accept the circumstances they’ve agreed to, and inherent risk, once driving away, by not being petty, create less conflict and seem more mature to me, is all. And it seems the very basis of courtesy to not create unnecessary conflict. The very basis of courtesy would be to not take a shoveled lot unless you had also shoveled out a lot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403.md?page=6)