# fuckers who don't have a clue about common courtesy in snowy regions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403 "2011-01-12T23:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/141 "2011-01-14T17:12:46Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I answered this very question up thread. > > Personally, I wouldn’t take his space. That said, I’m not maintaining that my behaviour obligates anyone else to behave in a similar fashion. I also bring in stray carts from the grocery parking lot, but I don’t expect others to. I do what I do because of who I am. My virtues do not obligate anyone else, via some unwritten social contract, to behave similarly. > > But I would assume he is adult enough to understand that once he drives off the lot he takes his chances, just like the rest of us, and not get all butthurt over some ‘unwritten’ convention not being observed. I find your position of “If I do it, it’d be a butthorn move. But, if someone else does it - eh, whatever, I don’t want to judge,” to be quite odd then. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/142 "2011-01-14T17:17:09Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Pack the snow solid under their car when they park in the shoveled place. Their car isn’t going anywhere the next day. I don’t know if this is intended in jest, but upthread I believe folk have suggested keying the car, or turning a hose on it. I hope I am not the only one who finds it curious that folk who bemoan a lack of courtesy on one hand, so often seem to suggest property damage in response? Here’s another hypo: Let’s say I merely cleared enough snow to get my car out. When I come back, for whatever reason the only spot available is one that someone completely cleared. Maybe someone is having a party or something. Am I prohibited from taking the cleared space? The ONLY situation in which I have ANY sympathy for the space shovelers would be in a residential neighborhood where everyone parks in front of their house every day, and knows each other and their car. But even in that situation, I’d say you have an increased _expectation_ that “your” space will remain available for you, but certainly no _guarantee._ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/143 "2011-01-14T17:18:25Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > I find your position of “If I do it, it’d be a butthorn move. But, if someone else does it - eh, whatever, I don’t want to judge,” to be quite odd then. Not at all. He is in the perfect position to judge - and dictate - his own behavior, but enjoys no such preferential position WRT anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/144 "2011-01-14T17:20:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not at all. He is in the perfect position to judge - and dictate - his own behavior, but enjoys no such preferential position WRT anyone else. Yah, I do find it odd. 🙂 I find it rude to cut in line at Disneyworld. But, hey man, you do what you think is right. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/145 "2011-01-14T17:21:09Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > I find your position of “If I do it, it’d be a butthorn move. But, if someone else does it - eh, whatever, I don’t want to judge,” to be quite odd then. Perhaps because you are not trying to understand it. I think **elbows** has been perfectly clear and reasonable in this thread, and I agree with his position. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/146 "2011-01-14T17:25:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Perhaps because you are not trying to understand it. > > I think **elbows** has been perfectly clear and reasonable in this thread, and I agree with his position. Nah, I get it, and just disagree. I have no problem evaluating whether or not people are assholes based on the same standards to which I hold myself. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/147 "2011-01-14T18:18:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I don’t know if this is intended in jest, but upthread I believe folk have suggested keying the car, or turning a hose on it. > > I hope I am not the only one who finds it curious that folk who bemoan a lack of courtesy on one hand, so often seem to suggest property damage in response? > > Here’s another hypo: Let’s say I merely cleared enough snow to get my car out. When I come back, for whatever reason the only spot available is one that someone completely cleared. Maybe someone is having a party or something. Am I prohibited from taking the cleared space? > > The ONLY situation in which I have ANY sympathy for the space shovelers would be in a residential neighborhood where everyone parks in front of their house every day, and knows each other and their car. But even in that situation, I’d say you have an increased _expectation_ that “your” space will remain available for you, but certainly no _guarantee._ Snow doesn’t damage the car and they have to shovel to leave. I lived where everybody had to shovel their spot and one certain person always took your normal spot if it was shoveled. The emphasis on always. Thus you got home tired and had to shovel again while your car sat in the road and you risked a ticket. They don’t get my sympathy, just enmity. Bastards! ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/148 "2011-01-14T19:19:07Z")
Years ago when I lived further north, I had to dig my vehicle out of a parallel parking spot on the frigging STREET. One step more removed from the original poster’s situation. Nonetheless, after over an hour of digging, I was ready to leave. Now I knew there would be a decent chance somebody else would grab my space while I was gone, but I put a traffic cone in the spot with a sign that said: (paraphrasing here, I don’t remember exact words) Yeah, I know you can move this and take the spot I shoveled out. Please, be a decent person, and don’t"’ Spot was still there hours later when I returned. My wife said she had watched two different cars stop, get out obviously intending to move the cone, read the sign, and drive off after pondering for a second. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/149 "2011-01-14T19:27:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Huh? What is this supposed to mean? > > I’m not in the business of making worlds–that’s what people like the OP and Philster do when they believe they alone can determine how other people are supposed to act. I simply take the world as it is, recognizing that I am in control of my own actions and other people are just going to do whatever they do. If I’m not mistaken, you’re a Libertarian, and Libertarians are people who try to pretend that their view of the world is just for themselves and doesn’t affect other people. Plus, I was feeling bombastic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/150 "2011-01-14T20:33:58Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Spot was still there hours later when I returned. My wife said she had watched two different cars stop, get out obviously intending to move the cone, read the sign, and drive off after pondering for a second. Today was two days after our recent storm. I moved my first space saving garbage can of the season today. I hate them. 48 hours after the storm, fine. After that, the street is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/151 "2011-01-14T20:37:58Z")
I’m sorry. This may not be the day to post the weather from my zip code… 77°F Current: Partly Cloudy Wind: N at 6 mph Humidity: 30% No snow in sight. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/152 "2011-01-14T20:44:44Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, you’re a Libertarian, and Libertarians are people who try to pretend that their view of the world is just for themselves and doesn’t affect other people. Plus, I was feeling bombastic. 🙂 Now you’re making even less sense. First of all, I’m a libertarian but not a Libertarian. Second, I don’t think my view of the world is just for libertarians. I have views about how to set up and run the government, and I have those views because I think it would benefit everyone in society. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/153 "2011-01-15T01:27:34Z")
Well I find it odd that you cause all this conflict in the name of ‘common courtesy’. When all it’s doing is clearly creating conflict, rage, and vitriol. This unwritten rule is clearly not adhered to by everyone, some seem to feel that as adults they can handle possibly losing ‘their’ spot, a risk they seem prepared to live with. I happen to think it’s the right thing to do, when you’re in the grocery parking lot, and there’s a stray cart taking up a space, for you to grab it and return it to the store you’re walking up to anyway. So that’s what I do. It’s not hard, it frees the space for the next person, and I’m walking up to the store anyway. Does my behaviour obligate you to do the same? No. Does my calling it common or courteous, obligate you? No. Am I going to get all butthurt if you don’t do as I do? No, I’m not. I do what I do because of who I am. I am not projecting my behaviour onto you. If you walk right by it, I don’t think you an asshole or jerk, or a freeloader or anything else. If you prefer ownership of your parking space then pay the premium and rent where such is available. Otherwise be an adult and accept that you have to take your chances, like everyone else does. Being an adult about things is singularly the most wheel greasing thing you can do for society. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/154 "2011-01-15T01:31:39Z")
Can we at least agree that the person who left the cart in the parking space is an asshole? In other “common fucking courtesy in the snow” news: Dear Idiots, Enormous snowbanks make for narrow sidewalks. If you’re walking three abreast, and I’m already as far to the right as I can get, one of you fucking morons is gonna have to fall back. It’s not my rule, it’s fucking physics. Thanks, DianaG ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/155 "2011-01-15T01:40:50Z")
**DianeG** , I feel your pain, we’re buried under snow currently, I couldn’t see a SUV, parked in front of my house, right now, the snowbanks are so high. I suggest, next time, wait till you’re right upon them, then pretend to lose your balance, and shove one of them into the street, that’ll teach them.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/156 "2011-01-15T02:00:47Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Can we at least agree that the person who left the cart in the parking space is an asshole? > > In other “common fucking courtesy in the snow” news: > > Dear Idiots, > > Enormous snowbanks make for narrow sidewalks. If you’re walking three abreast, and I’m already as far to the right as I can get, one of you fucking morons is gonna have to fall back. It’s not my rule, it’s fucking physics. > > Thanks, > DianaG Not to go off on a tangential and tired debate, but were these three women? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/157 "2011-01-15T02:05:51Z")
Actually it was a woman and two guys. Sorry to stop your tired tangent in it’s tracks. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/158 "2011-01-15T04:14:08Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > We don’t experience people being engaged in parking wars or rage because everyone seems to understand the rules the same way, unassigned parking means you take your chances, suck it up, it’s the same for everybody. It’s called sharing. For the record, I live in a region that gets the occasional big snowfall, where people save spaces with chairs and crates and traffic cones or whatever piece of garbage they find in the basement, and it drives me up a fucking wall. I fucking hate this. Yes, I dig out my spot when there’s a blizzard. Sometimes, I even dig out two or three spots if I’m feeling bored. Frankly, I don’t give a shit if somebody else parks in it when I go away. _It’s not my spot_. Most everybody eventually digs out their spot, so what the hell is wrong with sharing it? Every time I see goddamn chairs in the street–and some people take this to a ridiculous extent, putting them out there for an _inch_ of snow–I want to take an axe and go Lizzie Borden on them. It’s selfish and it makes the neighborhood look like its filled with a bunch of territorial dickwads rather than a communal space. Anyhow, luckily, my immediate neighbors don’t practice this asinine urban ritual, and if someone parks in my space after I get back, so the fuck what? I have no expectation of that space being reserved. Even if there’s no snow, I have no expectation of the space in front of my house being free of cars. Just because I took a shovel and ten minutes of my time doesn’t all of sudden bestow on me the rights to that space. So when I shovel two spaces, do I get to keep all those, too? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/159 "2011-01-15T16:03:17Z")
11 more centimeters of snow fell overnight, and it’s still snowing. 365,000 people live in my city and I’m confident none of them are getting into parking wars, raging at their neighbours, threatening to key or bury another’s car, or setting out chairs or garbage cans. Because the protocol here, is to be an adult about it, and not try to lay claim to that which is not ‘yours’. Do I understand it’s annoying to clear a spot and not find it available on your return, I do. It’s also annoying to find myself in the slowest moving line at the grocery. But, being an adult seems to get me through. I’m not standing in the slow moving line, throwing a hissy fit about how unfair it is. No one would mistake that behaviour as anything but childish and immature. I’m very sorry to those who feel my presentation of my position was unreasonable, or assholish. I tried to be civil and on topic and thought I was making a good point about which attitude really greased the wheels and which created conflict. Please understand, to someone who has enjoyed over 50yrs of snowy, snowy winters and nothing but peaceful interaction with the neighbours it is indeed confusing that anyone would prefer constant conflict and impotent rage as a regular outcome of an ‘unwritten’ protocol. It’s been fun, but I gotta go shovel some snow now!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403/160 "2011-01-15T18:29:09Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Can we at least agree that the person who left the cart in the parking space is an asshole? > > In other “common fucking courtesy in the snow” news: > > Dear Idiots, > > Enormous snowbanks make for narrow sidewalks. If you’re walking three abreast, and I’m already as far to the right as I can get, one of you fucking morons is gonna have to fall back. It’s not my rule, it’s fucking physics. > > Thanks, > DianaG That’s when you stop, plant your feet shoulder width apart, get your centre of gravity low and put your shoulder out front. They can bounce off that all they want. 🙂 (I do that for idiots who try to run right into me when I’m walking on the right side of the sidewalk - time for them to learn which side of the sidewalk to walk on.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckers-who-dont-have-a-clue-about-common-courtesy-in-snowy-regions/567403.md?page=7)