# Fuckin' Court of Appeals! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2001, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479 "2001-06-28T16:18:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![False\_God](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee7513/32.png) [@False\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/False_God)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/1 "2001-06-28T16:18:50Z")
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57869-2001Jun28.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57869-2001Jun28.html) So, for now, no breakup. Because the judge allowed himself to be “biased against Microsoft”. FIND ME SOMEONE WHO’S USED WINDOWS FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR AND ISN’T BIASED AGAINST THEM! Accuracy of the judicial process compromised, my ass. Just like bringing in the Supremes to adjudicate a election isn’t compromising jurisprudence. Off to go have a few beers and ruminate upon joining the Luddite army… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/2 "2001-06-28T22:56:37Z")
I dunno…judicial bias can be a big deal. The idea is that the judge should be impartial. I mean, lets say you’re walking your dog, and Fluffy does his business on my rose bushes, so I sue you for the cost of the bushes. If when we go to court, the judge says, at the beginning of the trial, “Personally, I hate dogs and their owners! I think anyone who owns a dog should be shot!”, then you’d probably be nervous about the outcome of the case. ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/3 "2001-06-28T23:16:38Z")
For some reason I keep getting the same Simpsons bit in my head whenever I hear about this: Police Chief getting large bag of cash in witness stand: “Oh, good. My, ehm, laundry is done. ‘psst, in the future, I would prefer a briefcase instead of a large bag with a dollar sign on it!’” Not to say I’m implying anything. At all. Not me. 😃 — G. Raven ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/4 "2001-06-29T05:04:33Z")
I’m not sure what the complaint is, here. The Appellate Court substantially _agreed_ with the verdict. They found that Microsoft _had_ engaged in monopolistic and anti-competitive practices. The only thing they really rejected was the sentence. Why? Because the idiot judge had _private meetings_ with the people who had pressed to have the suit brought and had expressed his contempt for Microsoft outside the court and before the verdict was reached. The Appeals Court found that the judge had so far overstepped his bounds in expressing personal prejudice, that his _sentence_ appeared to have been handed down vindictively rather than judiciously. Let me repeat, in case you did not read the actual decision: The _verdict_ is unchanged: Microsoft stands convicted of monopolistic and anti-competitive practices. The only change is that the sentence will be handed to a new judge for a second view. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/5 "2001-06-29T05:45:11Z")
I remember that this was mentioned in one of the Dubya knocking threads during the recounts. Trees would be chopped down, oilfields expanded, Kyoto agreement disagreed, Microsoft gets its own way. Maybe babies will be on the menu soon. ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/6 "2001-06-29T05:58:47Z")
**tomndebb** , I don’t think that is _entirely_ accurate. As **minty green** point out in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=76062), the court ruled that “we reverse the District Court’s determination Microsoft violated § 2 of the Sherman Act by illegally attempting to monopolize the internet browser market; and we remand the District Court’s finding that Microsoft violated § 1 of the Sherman Act by unlawfully tying its browser to its operating system.” So “yes” to the OS monopoly, “no” to illegally tying IE to the OS or trying to monopolize browsers. The court rejected far more than just the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/7 "2001-06-29T08:55:34Z")
> [@](#): > > FIND ME SOMEONE WHO’S USED WINDOWS FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR AND ISN’T BIASED AGAINST THEM! I am not the least bit biased against Microsoft. Do I win a prize? ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/8 "2001-06-29T09:06:06Z")
Yes! Here you go, your very own copy of Windows 2000 and every single program that refuses to function properly with it! 😃 — G. Raven ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/9 "2001-06-29T12:42:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by False\_God \* > \*\*[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57869-2001Jun28.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57869-2001Jun28.html) > > So, for now, no breakup. Because the judge allowed himself to be “biased against Microsoft”. > FIND ME SOMEONE WHO’S USED WINDOWS FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR AND ISN’T BIASED AGAINST THEM! > Accuracy of the judicial process compromised, my ass. Just like bringing in the Supremes to adjudicate a election isn’t compromising jurisprudence. > Off to go have a few beers and ruminate upon joining the Luddite army… \*\* I’ve used Windows for many years and I’m not biased against them. I think the Microsoft has provided a product that is fairly easy to use. Most people who bad mouth Windows are either computer nerds or Mac users. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/10 "2001-06-29T13:21:40Z")
I’ve also found that people who complain about Windows crashing suddenly forget to mention that 5 minute prior to the crash, they were doing something stupid, like cleaning out system files and random DLLs… And **hardcore** is right. The appellate court basically ruled that the remedy was improper, and certain issues are going to go back to trial court. There is also the probabiliyu that the case will go before the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/11 "2001-06-29T13:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrison’s Lament \* > **Yes! Here you go, your very own copy of Windows 2000 and every single program that refuses to function properly with it!** Hey, if you’re giving out copies of 2k, can I have one? Best damn OS I’ve ever used. (And yes, I’ve used MacOS and Linux) Stable, fast, friendly, easy to install, compatible with all but 3 or 4 programs I’ve thrown at it. I would have Bill Gates’s children in exchange for this software, if it weren’t for the fact that we’re both guys and he’s just a little bit more than creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/12 "2001-06-29T15:16:59Z")
Microsoft won, in a nutshell. They’ll get the primo settlement, and then move on to making sure that anything you use works to their advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/13 "2001-06-29T20:36:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Saint Zero_ > Microsoft won, in a nutshell. If that was a win, I’d hate to see a loss. The appeals court upheld a large chunk of the lower court’s decision. They said that Judge Jackson shouldn’t have ordered a breakup without a hearing, but left open the possibility of a breakup (though I think that’s unlikely.) The appeals court upheld the finding that Microsoft abused its monopoly power, which was the meat of the government’s allegations. It appears from your post that you don’t like Microsoft, so you should be happy. This is a victory for the government and I think you’re getting a little greedy. The appeals court is not going to call Microsoft “evil” or say Gates is an asshole, so you’re going to have to settle for the legal victory. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/14 "2001-06-29T21:35:44Z")
> [@](#): > > There is also the probabiliyu that the case will go before the Supreme Court. Actually, my WAG, (Ashcroft’s posturing notwithstanding), is that DoJ will go have a friendly chat with Bill and they will wind up backing off from some of the Clinton DoJ demands. OTOH, the _state_ attorneys general sounded like starved sharks outside a freshly chummed cage waiting for the door to open, so while this won’t end soon, I doubt that the next step is going directly to the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/15 "2001-06-29T22:56:44Z")
Zoff, Microsoft won. They won’t be broken up. No matter what softhanded penalty Bush&Co impose, Gates will ignore it, and the DoJ will smile and look the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/16 "2001-06-29T23:53:13Z")
I don’t think you’re taking all elements into consideration. Microsoft is in a bad position. First, they still face the possibility of being split. The appeals court holding makes it unlikely, but it’s still a possibility. As for settlement, even if we assume that “Bush & Co.” want to let Microsoft off easy, the state attorneys general are unlikely to agree. So the case will continue and Microsoft will have to go back to the district court and hope things turn out well. And remember, Microsoft will not be able to re-litigate the issue of monopolization of the OS market. Another issue with settlement is that Microsoft would be letting stand a finding that they are anticompetitive monopolists. This holding can be used in private lawsuits without having to re-litigate the issue. That represents a _huge_ potential liability. Microsoft lost. ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/17 "2001-06-30T05:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Morrison’s Lament \* > > **Yes! Here you go, your very own copy of Windows 2000 and every single program that refuses to function properly with it!** > > Hey, if you’re giving out copies of 2k, can I have one? Best damn OS I’ve ever used. (And yes, I’ve used MacOS and Linux) Stable, fast, friendly, easy to install, compatible with all but 3 or 4 programs I’ve thrown at it. > > I would have Bill Gates’s children in exchange for this software, if it weren’t for the fact that we’re both guys and he’s just a little bit more than creepy. \*\* Works like a charm, when you’re running one of the three programs it supports 😃 — G. Raven ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/18 "2001-06-30T05:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrison’s Lament \* > \*\* > > Works like a charm, when you’re running one of the three programs it supports 😃 > > — G. Raven \*\* Umm…other than games and antivirus software (and even most games made in the past year or two are fine), I have had zero problems. What are you trying to run, Word 2.0 for DOS? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/19 "2001-06-30T05:52:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > There is also the probabiliyu that the case will go before the Supreme Court. > > Actually, my WAG, (Ashcroft’s posturing notwithstanding), is that DoJ will go have a friendly chat with Bill and they will wind up backing off from some of the Clinton DoJ demands. \*\* You are woefully ignorant of the origins of this case. This is not a “Clinton DoJ” case. It was begun by the Attorney General of the State of Texas, during the reign of Gov. George W. Bush. Alas, Texas dropped out of the case, but the case remains in the hands of the States. The DoJ can not scuttle this case, nor can Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479/20 "2001-06-30T12:35:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve used Windows for many years and I’m not biased against them. I think the Microsoft has provided a product that is fairly easy to use. Most people who bad mouth Windows are either computer nerds or Mac users. Don’t forget the little mom-and-pop operations like Sun Microsystems, Oracle, and America Offline that big, bad, evil Microsoft have put out of business. Well, you also have to remember that every person who speaks up against Windows is a MacOS or Linux user as well…after all, why would someone continue to use an OS they despise? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckin-court-of-appeals/70479.md?page=2)