# fucking antiGMO idiots. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330 "2012-07-15T19:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/21 "2012-07-16T22:30:05Z")
Oh, you mean like [this](http://www.tvacres.com/images/frankenberry.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/22 "2012-07-17T02:22:20Z")
> [@conway](#): > > Oh, you mean like [this](http://www.tvacres.com/images/frankenberry.jpg)? Link fail. 403 error, because the site you linked to doesn’t want you remotely linking to images within their pages. Directly linking to the [entire page](http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_frankenberry.htm) the image is on works much better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/23 "2012-07-17T03:36:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, GEO is a much better term since it couldn’t possibly be confused with something else. Like a failed car brand… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/24 "2012-07-17T05:37:28Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I have no problem with genetic engineering or modification or whatever. Lewontin has an interesting article on [it here](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2001/jun/21/genes-in-the-food/?pagination=false). I do have a problem with [genetic use restriction technology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology) and the Supreme Court decision in [Diamond vs. Chakrabarty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Chakrabarty). Agriculture is an industry like any other - and a high-tech, knowledge-intensive industry at that. Like any industry, it has hardware, software… and proprietary technology. Farming is no different that the computer or auto-manufacturing industries. Don’t romanticize it. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/25 "2012-07-17T05:58:45Z")
This debate is very similar to the vaccination debate, with the most significant difference being that choosing “organic” fruits and vegetables does not expose one to increased chance of contracting a horrible illness. People who opt for “organic” products do so knowing that millennia of human consumers have thrived with these choices, and suspecting that we are still in essentially the trial and error period where GMOs are concerned. Perhaps those with advanced knowledge of science feel confident that altering the DNA of these plants is no different than selectively cross breeding different strains, or grafting techniques that have been used for centuries. Those less savvy of the science involved feel that there is a significant difference between cross breeding strains of peas and choosing to futz with DNA in a lab. I for one support those who would prefer to wait and see what the unforeseen consequences might be of science that that is difficult to understand for the layperson who _does_ understand the birds and the bees. But of course YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/26 "2012-07-17T06:50:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Agriculture is an industry like any other - and a high-tech, knowledge-intensive industry at that. Like any industry, it has hardware, software… and proprietary technology. > > Farming is no different that the computer or auto-manufacturing industries. Don’t romanticize it. Do your competitor’s cars pollinate your cars so the next generation of cars all have “their” proprietary technology? Does Mitsubishi have to throw out its engines and install Toyota engines because the wind blew Toyota sperm into the shop? No? Then it’s not the same. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/27 "2012-07-17T07:01:26Z")
Intellectual-property capitalism is a form of power politics like any other - and a systematic restraint on competition at that. In this it is like rules defining where a given ethnicity can settle, or the Jim Crow laws of old Dixie, or royal monopolies. Don’t romanticize it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/28 "2012-07-17T15:50:42Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > This debate is very similar to the vaccination debate, with the most significant difference being that choosing “organic” fruits and vegetables does not expose one to increased chance of contracting a horrible illness. People who opt for “organic” products do so knowing that millennia of human consumers have thrived with these choices, and suspecting that we are still in essentially the trial and error period where GMOs are concerned. Perhaps those with advanced knowledge of science feel confident that altering the DNA of these plants is no different than selectively cross breeding different strains, or grafting techniques that have been used for centuries. Those less savvy of the science involved feel that there is a significant difference between cross breeding strains of peas and choosing to futz with DNA in a lab. I for one support those who would prefer to wait and see what the unforeseen consequences might be of science that that is difficult to understand for the layperson who _does_ understand the birds and the bees. But of course YMMV. I’m not particularly convinced that you understand what is meant by the term “organic”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/29 "2012-07-17T16:17:29Z")
Honest question here - why do people hate GMO/GEO food so much? What are they afraid of? ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/30 "2012-07-17T16:45:42Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m not particularly convinced that you understand what is meant by the term “organic”. What makes you say that? ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/31 "2012-07-17T16:49:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Honest question here - why do people hate GMO/GEO food so much? What are they afraid of? There is a definite fear factor. Mainly, it is fear of the unknown. In my case, it is not fear of the lab-tinkered food itself, but a fear of wiping out the naturally-pollenated food source. GMO foods were created in a lab but can pollinate naturally produced crops, thus passing on the GMO genes and potentially wiping out certain characteristics that may be good things in the first place. I also simply feel there hasn’t been enough testing done to justify using GMO crops. Remember when people thought DDT was a good thing because it killed mosquitoes? You are surely familiar with the controversy over sugar substitutes/cancer and women’s hormone replacement therapy/cancer issues. Well, I’m not saying GMO=cancer. I’m saying, we don’t know. When we build RoundUp-resistant corn and sugar beets, what side effects are we introducing that we simply haven’t discovered yet? That’s my main beef. But back to variety. Having lots of variety in a food is a good thing. Switching to having the majority of a crop (e.g. corn) be sourced from a place that has to be hand-pollinated to continue the desired gene production is taking a huge risk. What if, due to war or natural disaster, the place(es) where this is done is wiped off the map? What if a blight comes along and affects only that crop, but a large region of the world depends on that crop? The potato blight in Ireland is a great historical example. Over 90% of commercial bananas grown are from a plant that doesn’t reproduce. It has to be hand-propigated. If that crop develops a blight, it is “goodbye bananas” for several generations until a new version can be developed.\* Now, imagine that happening to corn, wheat or rice. Imagine it happening globally. Scary. - I don’t want to imply that there are not many, many different kinds of bananas growing because there are and, IMO, many taste better than Dwarf Cavendish (the kind we know best). But it would take years and years to grow and produce enough of these other bananas before there would be enough to fill the hole left by the absence of Dwarf Cavendish bananas in the marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/32 "2012-07-17T16:49:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Does Mitsubishi have to throw out its engines and install Toyota engines because the wind blew Toyota sperm into the shop? Rule 34. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/33 "2012-07-17T17:25:29Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > I also simply feel there hasn’t been enough testing done to justify using GMO crops. Really? Genetically modified wheat has been credited with saving a billion people from starvation. If that doesn’t “justify” the use of GMOs, then I don’t think anything is going to sway you. > [@](#): > > You are surely familiar with the controversy over sugar substitutes/cancer… Yes, and it’s total bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/34 "2012-07-17T17:30:17Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > What makes you say that? Because “organic” is a word used to describe plants and animals raised via a certain farming method, while “GMO” specially refers to a vegetable that has been genetically modified. While organic-labeled produce in the US is not allowed to include GMO produce, the two terms aren’t really mutually exclusive. In fact, GMO feed is sometimes used in the production of organic meat. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/35 "2012-07-17T17:49:03Z")
Lab D, I clearly state that I feel there hasn’t been enough testing. What you feel is clearly a different story but doesn’t change my POV one iota. Also, can you give a cite on your statement regarding your statement on sugar substitutes/cancer being total bullshit or is that your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/36 "2012-07-17T17:56:17Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > Lab D, I clearly state that I feel there hasn’t been enough testing. What you feel is clearly a different story but doesn’t change my POV one iota. How much testing has been done? How much do you think would be enough? > [@](#): > > Also, can you give a cite on your statement regarding your statement on sugar substitutes/cancer being total bullshit or is that your opinion? This subject has been done to death on the board. No association between aspartame or saccharine and cancer in humans has ever been established. If you believe otherwise, it’s on you to provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/37 "2012-07-17T20:19:45Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > In my case, it is not fear of the lab-tinkered food itself, but a fear of wiping out the naturally-pollenated food source. GMO foods were created in a lab but can pollinate naturally produced crops, thus passing on the GMO genes and potentially wiping out certain characteristics that may be good things in the first place. 1. GMOs are as naturally pollinated as a non-GMO plant of the same species. Gnetic modification has absolutely no effect on the mode of pollination. The fact that you don’t know this highlights your gross ignorance of the topic. 2. GMOs are absolutely no more likely to “potentially wipe out certain characteristics that may be good things” than any other purpose bred cultivar.. So in this regard GMOs are exactly, and I mean _exactly_, the same as any other prupose bred crop. What you have raised here is not an issue with GMOs, it is an issue with all, and I mean all, agriculture crops. > [@](#): > > I also simply feel there hasn’t been enough testing done to justify using GMO crops. So, over 35 years of lab testing and field testing and actual real-world use. And not a single incidence resulting in permanent injury or death, and less than 3 incidences with any negative health effects whatsoever. It’s hard to imaging what amount of testing would satisfy you. In contrast, organic foods are responsible, on average, for around 1000 cases of incapacitating illness each week and on average one hundred death per year. But somehow you think that the testing on GMOs is insufficient, and the testing of organic inputs is sufficient. The fact is that GMOs are tested far \*more \*rigorously than novel pesticides or fertilisers. And that includes the so-called organic fertilisers and pesticides. > [@](#): > > Remember when people thought DDT was a good thing because it killed mosquitoes? You mean like the WHO, the premier organisation concerned with mosquito control? The WHO that still thinks that DDT is a good thing because it killed mosquitoes. How foolish people were to believe what the WHO still believes. > [@](#): > > Well, I’m not saying GMO=cancer. I’m saying, we don’t know. When we build RoundUp-resistant corn and sugar beets, what side effects are we introducing that we simply haven’t discovered yet? That’s my main beef. So it’s a blatant argument from ignorance. After 35 years of the most rigorous testing there is not only no evidence of harmful effects, there is no plausible mechanism for harmful effects. But we just don’t know.:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > But back to variety. Having lots of variety in a food is a good thing. Switching to having the majority of a crop (e.g. corn) be sourced from a place that has to be hand-pollinated to continue the desired gene production is taking a huge risk. What the fuck are you on about? You just finished bitching about how GMOs will pollinate non-GMO crops accidentally, and now you are rabbiting on about how they can’t even pollinate \*themselves \*without deliberate human intervention. You are absolutely ignorant on this topic aren’t you? > [@](#): > > What if, due to war or natural disaster, the place(es) where this is done is wiped off the map? Since it isn’t done and genetic modification has no effect at all on mode of pollination, I think we can all sleep safe. > [@](#): > > What if a blight comes along and affects only that crop, but a large region of the world depends on that crop? The potato o blight in Ireland is a great historical example. Either you believe that potatoes in 19th century Ireland were Genetically modified, or you have proven to us all that GMOs are less prone to this problem than non-GMOs, and thus a solution to the problem, not a cause of it. Seriously dude, try to construct a coherent argument. > [@](#): > > Over 90% of commercial bananas grown are from a plant that doesn’t reproduce. It has to be hand-propigated. No you fucking moron. Gah I hate it when hippies spout shit about subjects that they know absolutely nothing about. 1. Bananas are not pollinated in any way at all. They are utterly sterile and do not produce viable pollen. Bananas are reproduced from sucker, stem cutting, not seed. They have been like that for at least 3, 000 fucking years. 2. Bananas are not fucking GMOs. Bananas are a cultivated sterile hybrid. As such they provide a perfect example of why GMOs are no different to standard bred crops. Your ignorance on this topic is extraordinary, but as with all ignorant people, you feel the need to rant and rave about something you have absolutely no knowledge of. > [@](#): > > If that crop develops a blight, it is “goodbye bananas” for several generations until a new version can be developed.\* Now, imagine that happening to corn, wheat or rice. Imagine it happening globally. Scary. Indeed. Utterly impossible, but scary. A scenario that is reduced due to the use of GMOs, not increased. But scary.:rolleyes: Ignorant fool. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/38 "2012-07-17T20:45:59Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Because “organic” is a word used to describe plants and animals raised via a certain farming method, while “GMO” specially refers to a vegetable that has been genetically modified. While organic-labeled produce in the US is not allowed to include GMO produce, the two terms aren’t really mutually exclusive. In fact, GMO feed is sometimes used in the production of organic meat. Well I would bet that there are very few consumers who avoid GMO produce who do not go the distance and avoid produce raised using herbicides and pesticides. I know what the term organic refers to in the grocery store. Also, could you please describe to me the method of avoiding GMO produce without seeking out those products which are organic? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/39 "2012-07-17T20:53:28Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > But back to variety. Having lots of variety in a food is a good thing. Switching to having the majority of a crop (e.g. corn) be sourced from a place that has to be hand-pollinated to continue the desired gene production is taking a huge risk. All corn is wind-pollinated. It doesn’t matter if it is ‘natural corn’, which is something that does not exist, or if it is hybrid corn, GM corn or any other kind. It is all wind pollinated. The idea of hand pollinated corn is just fundamentally stupid, if you have ever been around an actual corn field. Pollination of the mature plant is a quite different process from planting a seed, or developing a new type of seed. Developing new strains of seed is what Gregor Mendel was doing in the mid 1800’s. What he was doing with peas is the same sort of thing as creating a GMO seed. Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees, and the flowers and the trees… ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/40 "2012-07-17T21:18:09Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > Well I would bet that there are very few consumers who avoid GMO produce who do not go the distance and avoid produce raised using herbicides and pesticides. I know what the term organic refers to in the grocery store. Also, could you please describe to me the method of avoiding GMO produce without seeking out those products which are organic? You think the only way to avoid GMOs is to buy organic? Is that what you’re saying? All snark aside, I’m not sure what your broader point is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330.md?page=3)