# fucking antiGMO idiots. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330 "2012-07-15T19:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/61 "2012-07-18T19:36:52Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Give me a little time, it is not my area of expertise. In general I do a ‘follow the money’ first, then if I need details I do that second. In this case the money trail is like a superhighway. So, no. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/62 "2012-07-18T19:40:18Z")
Looking at **Ulfreida** ’s post… :sigh: Of course one has to be wary of new technology, but one has to say that most fears that you mention are mostly unfounded or without evidence. One should check the experts in the matter, the cited ones in [Talkorigins.org](http://Talkorigins.org) and [skepticalscience.com](http://skepticalscience.com) should be checked when creationists and then fake global warming skeptics peddle their nonsense, for GMO one should check [biofortified.org](http://biofortified.org) This article is appropriate: > **[The man behind the Rainbow](https://biofortified.org/2012/06/21/rainbow/)** > > The curious case of the genetically modified papaya. By Jennifer Mo. Stop by the farmers’ market in Hilo, Hawaii, and you’ll find knobby cherimoyas, avocadoes the size of eggplants, and mounds of p… > [@](#): > > The curious case of the genetically modified papaya. > > By Jennifer Mo. > > Stop by the farmers’ market in Hilo, Hawaii, and you’ll find knobby cherimoyas, avocadoes the size of eggplants, and mounds of papayas sunset-fleshed and as smooth and sweet as custard. > > That wasn’t always the case. Back in the 90s, Hawaiian papaya farmers were faced with devastation from ringspot virus, a plant virus that reduced papaya production by 50 percent within six years and just kept spreading. Small farmers faced losing their livelihoods when one plant pathologist developed a virus-resistant variety called the Rainbow and distributed the seeds to struggling farmers—for free. Fourteen years later, Hawaii’s small papaya farmers are flourishing. > > There’s a lot to like about this story—the altruism of the researcher, the success of independent local farmers. But there’s one detail that could change everything about how you see it: the Rainbow papaya is genetically modified. > > A gene from the ringspot virus was inserted into the papaya, where it acts like a built-in vaccine against the virus. In other words, it’s Frankenfood. Or is it? > > I say GMO, you think: Monsanto, Big Ag, lobbyists, corporate interests. But none of these played a major role in the GM Rainbow papaya. And for me, that led to an important realization. Genetic engineering technology is not the same thing as Monsanto/Big Ag policy. It’s a tool. And like all tools, it can be used for good or bad ends. > > I’m a skeptic, so I scoured the web for info—agricultural news sites, activist sites, USDA releases, science journals and blogs. Then I took my questions to the man who developed the Rainbow, Dr. Dennis Gonsalves, retired Professor Emeritus of Plant Pathology at Cornell and now the director of the USDA’s Pacific Basin Agricultural Center. > > He’s a straight shooter, detailing the successes and challenges of the project with peer reviewed articles and independently verifiable facts. Halfway through our exchange, it hits me: > > Why shouldn’t we always address our science questions to scientists, not lobbyists or activists? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/63 "2012-07-18T19:47:43Z")
[gmo soy in south america](http://www.gmwatch.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12598:gm-soy-increases-poverty-threatens-health-in-south-america-farmer-advocates) [transgenic contamination of maize in mexico, canola in canada](http://smallfarmersbigchange.coop/2010/03/03/gmo-contamination-of-maize-crime-against-humanity-2/) [monsanto direct intimidation of farmers in the US](http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805) these are from the first page of google search “gmo small farmers” And what about that crazy hippie Western Europe, which has enacted gmo bans of various kinds? What’s their pitiful unscientific excuse? yes, it’s political. And saying “technology is just a tool” is naive in the extreme. It’s never just a tool. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/64 "2012-07-18T19:52:14Z")
:sigh: again, even the article I quoted makes the point that one should consult the science, not activists and what Monsanto does (that does deserve pointed critisism) is not the reason one should then dump the whole deal. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/65 "2012-07-18T20:10:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :sigh: again, even the article I quoted makes the point that one should consult the science, not activists and what Monsanto does (that does deserve pointed critisism) is not the reason one should then dump the whole deal. How can you separate them, then, in the real world? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/66 "2012-07-18T20:19:22Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > How can you separate them, then, in the real world? Using logic and evidence, I do dislike Monsanto for increasing the number of weeds that are resistant to their crops, making it very likely that even farmers that do not like to use the Monsanto stuff will be affected. However, as the Papaya example shows, even Monsanto knows that there are limits to what they can do, in Hawaii they decided to not enforce their patents regarding the Papaya changes, and I do think that public pressure was a part on that decision; as they say, there is a need of eternal vigilance, but as the Papaya shows, lets not refuse to use GMO when it is clearly a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/67 "2012-07-18T20:27:26Z")
It can take a while, but sooner or later, the law catches up with the science. It’s happening with the internet, it’ll happen with agritech. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/68 "2012-07-18T20:34:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It can take a while, but sooner or later, the law catches up with the science. It’s happening with the internet, it’ll happen with agritech. How is this happening with the internet exactly? If the law and science are the only two players, that would be a different world than the one I live in. In the one I live in, those who have the money and power are the big players, and both the law and science are usually just the puny dwarfs biting their ankles. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/69 "2012-07-19T02:09:20Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > [gmo soy in south america](http://www.gmwatch.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12598:gm-soy-increases-poverty-threatens-health-in-south-america-farmer-advocates)… > And what about that crazy hippie Western Europe, which has enacted gmo bans of various kinds? What’s their pitiful unscientific excuse? > > yes, it’s political. And saying “technology is just a tool” is naive in the extreme. It’s never just a tool. Europe? The place where an Italian court just awarded damages to a family for a child who developed autism “caused” by a vaccine? The place where homeopathic remedies are sold in every drugstore? I just looked at your first cite and I don’t see what the fuck it has to do with the safety of GMO foods. Farmers were forced off small farms so that large scale farming of soy could be done. Would that be OK if was not GMO soy? Want to follow the money? How about following it to idiots who write books and go on the lecture circuit spouting nonsense, or corporations that create organic brands so they can charge more, or large grocery chains like Whole Paycheck? ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/70 "2012-07-19T05:52:28Z")
One issue with crops genetically modified for herbicide resistance (most common, Roundup Ready crops) is that they also select for “Super-weeds” and that results in the use of ADDITIONAL herbicides rather than fewer herbicides. Super-weeds are not only a problem for the user of RR crops, but also for all other farmers and home owners in the local area who will be invaded by the same weeds. (One weed in the southeast, called pigweed, can grows three inches a day. Imagine having to keep up after that in your back yard. On the bright side, once the cotton fields are completely over-run, the pigweed could probably be used as fodder for alternate fuels from cellulose. Here is a heavily referenced article (as in they provide cites for their statements) about the super-weeds that are developing in association with Roundup Ready crops: [GM Crops Meltdown in the US](http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GMCropsFacingMeltdown.php) This 2010 article includes a interactive map that shows the spread of resistant weeds between the year 2000 through 2009: [U.S. Farmers Cope With Roundup-Resistant Weeds - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?_r=1) (Source: International Survey of Herbicide Resistant Weeds) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/71 "2012-07-19T10:40:38Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > The place where homeopathic remedies are sold in every drugstore? Boots sell homeopathic “remedies”, as do CVS. Boots doesn’t sell cigarettes though. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/72 "2012-07-19T12:39:56Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > One issue with crops genetically modified for herbicide resistance (most common, Roundup Ready crops) is that they also select for “Super-weeds” and that results in the use of ADDITIONAL herbicides rather than fewer herbicides. See, now this is an example of a reasonable concern. For what it’s worth, I generally agree that Monsanto in particular has taken the technology of genetic engineering and done a lot of really stupid shit that seems intentionally designed to turn the general public against it. I mentioned earlier the banana plant that expressed a polio vaccine. That wasn’t hypothetical. My only source is my old college professor who claimed that Monsanto had created such a plant, the idea being that you just plant banana plants around the third world, and anyone who snacked on a banana would be immune to polio. So I can’t say for sure if it actually exists, but just imagine how the public image of GMOs would be different if they’d started with THAT kind of project rather than the money-grubbing crap they’re now known for. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/73 "2012-07-19T12:48:41Z")
From what I’ve seen, Monsanto is essentially the 1990s-Microsoft of genetic engineering. Could one oppose Microsoft without opposing software in general? ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330/74 "2012-07-19T15:47:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > From what I’ve seen, Monsanto is essentially the 1990s-Microsoft of genetic engineering. Could one oppose Microsoft without opposing software in general? I think a lot of people are not so much opposed to GMOs as taking a wait and see attitude. The experts are very confident they have this all figured out and the benifits to date have been immense. Now it seems that superweeds could complicate things and superbugs due to poor farming practices could become serious issues. Regardless of the unintended consequences I suspect that organic produce will very soon be only affordable to the super-rich. And on a global scale that is pretty much already true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-antigmo-idiots/628330.md?page=3)