# Fucking appalling Church acting totally against God **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111 "2004-08-16T18:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/1 "2004-08-16T18:35:50Z")
[http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3651369/detail.html](http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3651369/detail.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*BRIELLE, N.J. – An 8-year-old girl who has a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none. > > \ > > In May, the girl received her her first Holy Communion from a priest who offered her a wheat-free host. But last month, the diocese told the priest that Waldman’s sacrament would not be validated by the church because of the substitute wafer. \*\* What the FUCK is wrong with people when they obey “doctrine” over obvious, fucking obvious OBVIOUS will of God and Jesus. Do the SERIOUSLY imagine that for one nano-second the Almighty expects someone to make themselves ill to worship? Or that the Almighty would reject someone from communion for medical reasons? God must be utterly, utterly sickened by this. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/2 "2004-08-16T18:42:55Z")
To me this is just a bit of corporate bullying. The RC doesn’t want any congregation to step away and not toe the company line. If there was a god I think it would be really pissed about now. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/3 "2004-08-16T18:44:17Z")
This just in! God declares anaphylactic shock purest form of worship! … fucknuggets, all of them. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/4 "2004-08-16T18:45:39Z")
There is wheat in Holy Communion wafers? Who knew! It has been more than 25 years, but I always thought the wafers tasted like paper. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/5 "2004-08-16T18:45:40Z")
I may just be an ignorant atheist but… … isn’t the wafer supposed to represent the body of Christ, not the interests of wheat farmers? Does the bible explicitly state Jesus broke _wheat_ bread at the Last Supper? (that is where the tradition comes from isn’t it? - see above comment about ignorant atheists). ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/6 "2004-08-16T18:45:43Z")
What asshats. I wonder what they would think of my church using grape juice instead of wine. Heathens, the lot of us! ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/7 "2004-08-16T18:47:23Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > This just in! > > God declares anaphylactic shock purest form of worship! > . _pitches his Epi-pen in the trash_ Halleujah! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/8 "2004-08-16T18:47:40Z")
There’s nothing obvious about religious ritual. If those are the rules that were made up, those are the rules you have to play the game by. Too bad for the kid, but her folks knew it was bizarre when they signed her up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/9 "2004-08-16T18:48:10Z")
What’s that? The Church puts doctrine ahead of common sense and decency? The hell you say! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/10 "2004-08-16T18:50:09Z")
> [@istara](#): > > [http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3651369/detail.htmlGod](http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3651369/detail.htmlGod) must be utterly, utterly sickened by this. I agree this is silly but I can understand the Holy See’s position on this in light of all the pressure they’ve been under to provide Atkins-friendly communion.\* \*Totally made up. Probably true anyway. Funny old world. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/11 "2004-08-16T18:54:24Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I may just be an ignorant atheist but… > > … isn’t the wafer supposed to represent the body of Christ, not the interests of wheat farmers? Does the bible explicitly state Jesus broke _wheat_ bread at the Last Supper? (that is where the tradition comes from isn’t it? - see above comment about ignorant atheists). Ain’t no representing. According to the RCC doctrine of transubstantiation, the Sacrament of Holy Communion is the actual BODY & BLOOD of Christ- under the APPEARANCES of bread & wine. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/12 "2004-08-16T19:02:42Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > There’s nothing obvious about religious ritual. If those are the rules that were made up, those are the rules you have to play the game by. Too bad for the kid, but her folks knew it was bizarre when they signed her up. I half disagree. The rules are never spelled out so precisely until this sort of situation comes up. I bet if you asked 1000 catholics prior to this incident, virtually none would have known the wafers were supposed to be wheat based, or that it would make any difference. True, ignorance is no excuse, but has the church ever gone out of its way to instruct parishioners in exactly _why_ things are done the way they are? Besides which, the rules have changed over the centuries and they can change again. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/13 "2004-08-16T19:03:36Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I agree this is silly but I can understand the Holy See’s position on this in light of all the pressure they’ve been under to provide Atkins-friendly communion.\* > > \*Totally made up. Probably true anyway. Funny old world. I actually talked to my wife (a Catholic) about this just yesterday. I was trying to decide what a low-carbohydrate communion wafer would be called. Christ Edge or C2 came to mind. I kind of prefer C2, because Coke already has the ad campaign in place: “1/2 the purgatory; All the paradise”. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/14 "2004-08-16T19:04:50Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > There’s nothing obvious about religious ritual. If those are the rules that were made up, those are the rules you have to play the game by. Too bad for the kid, but her folks knew it was bizarre when they signed her up. But **how** is it a rule? Why can’t we have rye bread hosts? Where is that in the Bible? Or is it one of those “We’ve always done it this way” things? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/15 "2004-08-16T19:13:01Z")
Apparently those with the digestive disorder that the girl in the link has are predestined to go to Hell. Isn’t it obvious? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/16 "2004-08-16T19:17:31Z")
I just googled and answered my own questions. My new question is: why is imitation so important to these people? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/17 "2004-08-16T19:20:06Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > I half disagree. The rules are never spelled out so precisely until this sort of situation comes up. I bet if you asked 1000 catholics prior to this incident, virtually none would have known the wafers were supposed to be wheat based, or that it would make any difference. Not so. The Code of Canon Law is quite specific on this point: Can. 924 §1 The most holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist must be celebrated in bread, and in wine to which a small quantity of water is to be added. §2 The bread must be wheaten only, and recently made, so that there is no danger of corruption. §3 The wine must be natural, made from grapes of the vine, and not corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/18 "2004-08-16T19:21:12Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > But **how** is it a rule? Why can’t we have rye bread hosts? Where is that in the Bible? Or is it one of those “We’ve always done it this way” things? Here’s the Catholic Encyclopedia’s take on the matter (from 1911, but the wheat rule hasn’t changed) > [@](#): > > The first element is wheaten bread (panis triticeus), without which the “confection of the Sacrament does not take place” (Missale Romanum: De defectibus, sect. 3), Being true bread, the Host must be baked, since mere flour is not bread. Since, moreover, the bread required is that formed of wheaten flour, not every kind of flour is allowed for validity, such, e.g., as is ground from rye, oats, barley, Indian corn or maize, though these are all botanically classified as grain (frumentum), On the other hand, the different varieties of wheat (as spelt, amel-corn, etc.) are valid, inasmuch as they can be proved botanically to be genuine wheat. The necessity of wheaten bread is deduced immediately from the words of Institution: “The Lord took bread” (ton arton), in connection with which it may be remarked, that in Scripture bread (artos), without any qualifying addition, always signifies wheaten bread. No doubt, too, Christ adhered unconditionally to the Jewish custom of using only wheaten bread in the Passover Supper, and by the words, “Do this for a commemoration of me”, commanded its use for all succeeding times. In addition to this, uninterrupted tradition, whether it be the testimony of the Fathers or the practice of the Church, shows wheaten bread to have played such an essential part, that even Protestants would be loath to regard rye bread or barley bread as a proper element for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper. However, the cite is out of date. The current cite is from the 1975 version of the Missale Romanum, paragraph 282: > [@](#): > > 1. According to the tradition of the entire Church, the bread must be made from wheat; according to the tradition of the Latin Church, it must be unleavened. and from _Redemptionis Sacrementum_, para 48 > [@](#): > > The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition. It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament. It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist. Hosts should obviously be made by those who are not only distinguished by their integrity, but also skilled in making them and furnished with suitable tools. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/19 "2004-08-16T19:22:51Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Ain’t no representing. According to the RCC doctrine of transubstantiation, the Sacrament of Holy Communion is the actual BODY & BLOOD of Christ- under the APPEARANCES of bread & wine. So… there’s NEVER any wheat in the wafer! That means all communions for the last 2000 years have been retroactively declared invalid! We’re going to Hell, for sure… ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/20 "2004-08-16T19:28:10Z")
A friend of mine was dating a Catholic priest (you read that right) and she told him she couldn’t take communion because of a wheat allergy and he told her that it became the actual flesh of Christ and therefore was no longer wheat so no problem. My concern was that it was that the wafer was being administered by a priest who was corn holing her three times a week, so maybe his super-powers werent’ exactly at their peak to pull off this amazing transformation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111.md?page=2)