# Fucking appalling Church acting totally against God **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111 "2004-08-16T18:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/21 "2004-08-16T19:30:58Z")
> [@Anonymous Coward](#): > > _pitches his Epi-pen in the trash_ > > Halleujah! Sing it, brother! When I was a child, I made an entire congregation’s “communion” null and void. See, I was an alter-girl. The priest (a good family friend, has a woman in every port, and knows more dirty jokes than my dad and I combined…) and I used to have a running gag of pulling pranks on each other. When preparing communion, he’d always make me pour the entire little jug of wine into the chalice. So, one day, with the help of the nun who ran the parish office, I substituted his wine with apple juice. The look on his face was priceless. Payback involved chasing me around the church after mass with a little bowl of holy water which he poured on my head. Still - the parish peoples were none the wiser… but they’re all going to hell (me too, of course) because that one week was just not kosher (heh!). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/22 "2004-08-16T19:34:28Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > My concern was that it was that the wafer was being administered by a priest who was corn holing her three times a week, so maybe his super-powers werent’ exactly at their peak to pull off this amazing transformation. And in doing so, you’d be falling guilty of the Donatist heresy, which says that the validity of the actions of a church official to practice his office is dependent on that official’s moral state. 🙂 That was still some pretty bad advice your friend’s boyfriend gave her, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/23 "2004-08-16T19:34:38Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > A friend of mine was dating a Catholic priest (you read that right) and she told him she couldn’t take communion because of a wheat allergy and he told her that it became the actual flesh of Christ and therefore was no longer wheat so no problem. See, if she’d taken it, and then had fallen to the floor, thrashing around with her airways shrinking into nothingness, that’d just have been the Holy Spirit takin’ her over. I tell you - Anaphylaxis: The New Witnessing Craze. Forget speaking in tongues, just watch your tongue swell to an unnatural size! ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/24 "2004-08-16T19:34:46Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I just googled and answered my own questions. > > My new question is: why is imitation so important to these people? To you, imitation. To the catholics, ritual. I don’t see any imitation going on during the Eucharist and Communion. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/25 "2004-08-16T19:45:26Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > To you, imitation. To the catholics, ritual. I don’t see any imitation going on during the Eucharist and Communion. I do. I see that the Church is putting imitation above the spiritual needs of its congregants. The meat of any ritual is its _meaning_, not the trappings. I don’t see how, _especially_ considering the doctrine of transubstantiation, rye hosts are any less likely to become the body of Christ than wheat hosts. Communion with God is (supposed to be) a force powerful enough to rise above material concerns, and I think it’s sinful of the Church to be so fixated on aping The Last Supper. The spiritual aspect should take precendece over the secular and ephemeral trappings. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/26 "2004-08-16T19:51:20Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > See, if she’d taken it, and then had fallen to the floor, thrashing around with her airways shrinking into nothingness, that’d just have been the Holy Spirit takin’ her over. > > I tell you - Anaphylaxis: The New Witnessing Craze. Forget speaking in tongues, just watch your tongue swell to an unnatural size! It’s obviously easy enough to pile on… :wally Give it time for the issue to resolve itself…and I don’t mean that killing the kid through anaphylaxis shock is called resolving the issue. I think there is a way to communicate the issue to the Holy See to resolve the issue…for now, if it was my kid, I would have him/her recieve blessings from the priest instead of communion until the issue is addressed and solved. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/27 "2004-08-16T19:51:45Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > See, if she’d taken it, and then had fallen to the floor, thrashing around with her airways shrinking into nothingness, that’d just have been the Holy Spirit takin’ her over. > > I tell you - Anaphylaxis: The New Witnessing Craze. Forget speaking in tongues, just watch your tongue swell to an unnatural size! I suspect that what the child in the OP suffers from is not that exact type of allergy, but rather gluten intolerance, or [celiac disease](http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?objectid=0B50B26D-34AE-4F43-843BDA653DDEF6E3). It can cause a [variety of side effects/symptoms](http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?objectid=0B50B26D-34AE-4F43-843BDA653DDEF6E3&dsection=2) - rash, irritability, depression, stomach upset, all sorts of things. Plus any wheat-like product that is consumed will cause a small amount of damage to the lining of the small intestine, and this adds up over time. Children can even have their growth stunted, as they’re essentially being malnourished as a result. So you won’t have anyone scrambling for an epi-pen, but they’re essentially feeding people with this disease a tiny amount of poison, as this gluten will damage their intestines. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/28 "2004-08-16T19:56:23Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > See, if she’d taken it, and then had fallen to the floor, thrashing around with her airways shrinking into nothingness, that’d just have been the Holy Spirit takin’ her over. > > I tell you - Anaphylaxis: The New Witnessing Craze. Forget speaking in tongues, just watch your tongue swell to an unnatural size! It’s obviously easy enough to pile on… :wally Give it time for the issue to resolve itself…and I don’t mean that killing the kid through anaphylaxis shock is called resolving the issue. I think there is a way to communicate the issue to the Holy See to resolve the issue…for now, if it was my kid, I would have him/her recieve blessings from the priest instead of communion until the issue is addressed and solved. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/29 "2004-08-16T20:08:55Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > I half disagree. The rules are never spelled out so precisely until this sort of situation comes up. I bet if you asked 1000 catholics prior to this incident, virtually none would have known the wafers were supposed to be wheat based, or that it would make any difference. > > True, ignorance is no excuse, but has the church ever gone out of its way to instruct parishioners in exactly _why_ things are done the way they are? > > Besides which, the rules have changed over the centuries and they can change again. I’m being snarky. This is the second time in a week we’ve had a thread about ridiculous food rituals that have served to get a person fired and freak out a kid because she didn’t make legit communion. It’s just so absurd. They can all take their secret handshakes and blessed or unblessed foodstuffs and shove 'em as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/30 "2004-08-16T20:13:32Z")
Sheesh, I sould say that this is certainly silly but not “Fucking appalling”. A bit of an over-reaction there. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/31 "2004-08-16T20:15:06Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > The spiritual aspect should take precendece over the secular and ephemeral trappings. Yeah, but it’s also generally a bad idea to change a law because one person is inconvenienced. Besides, this just happened back in May. Even if they are going to make a change or an exception, it’s not going to happen in only 3 months. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/32 "2004-08-16T20:21:12Z")
This may be the first person in that congregation or that area, but it is not the first time that this issue has been brought up. Still, this is why I’m glad I’m a Methodist, rather than a Catholic. Methodists consider communion to be more symbolic than do Catholics and therefore do not consider that the exact form of the wafer is important. The persons who can not have gluten in my present congregation take communion with rice cakes, while the rest of us take communion with (ordinary) bread. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/33 "2004-08-16T20:21:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What’s that? The Church puts doctrine ahead of common sense and decency? The hell you say! This just in: Pope Catholic, bear shits in woods… ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/34 "2004-08-16T21:22:07Z")
I have a question here… How important is it in Catholicism to partake in the Eucharist and are there any ecclesiastal penalties that attach themselves to this girl because of her “failure” to partake thereof? For example: In Judaism one must eat _matzah_ (unleavened bread) on Passover. One who cannot do so (for whatever reason – there is no _matzah_ available, he’ll die if he eats it, etc.) is exempt from the commandment, but on the other hand cannot be said to have fulfilled it either. Would this be an analogous situation? Would the girl be exempt from the rite of the Eucharist, or is she still obligated thereof despite her condition? And if she’s example, then what’s the big deal? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/35 "2004-08-16T21:37:25Z")
The Church can’t simply throw out a 2,000 year old teaching just because of a single sick girl. There are other options. When one partakes, in Catholicism, of either the Body or the Blood, one is partaking of both. The obvious solution here is to give the girl a very small sip of the wine chalice instead of a piece of host during the Eucharist. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/36 "2004-08-16T21:39:41Z")
> [@LMM](#): > > Not so. The Code of Canon Law is quite specific on this point: > > Can. 924 §1 The most holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist must be celebrated in bread, and in wine to which a small quantity of water is to be added. > > §2 The bread must be wheaten only, and recently made, so that there is no danger of corruption. > > §3 The wine must be natural, made from grapes of the vine, and not corrupt. Fine, but I still doubt that the average catholic parishioner is aware of those rules. Unless of course I missed the Canon Law segment of catechism class. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/37 "2004-08-16T21:54:14Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Would this be an analogous situation? Would the girl be exempt from the rite of the Eucharist, or is she still obligated thereof despite her condition? And if she’s example, then what’s the big deal? As I understand it, yes it is analogous. Under normal circumstances, a Catholic is obligated to have communion twice a year, once during the easter season. If he or she fails to do so, that’s sinful. However, if he or she fails to do so due to neglect or accident, the sin is “venial” instead of “mortal”, and if he or she is really unable to do so through no fault of their own, as in the case of this girl, one hasn’t committed a sin at all. And like **spectrum** said, since drinking communion wine also fufills the obligation to participate in that rite, she could do so and have fufilled her obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/38 "2004-08-16T22:07:08Z")
Out of curiosity, I wonder whether the RCC required parishes in medieval times in areas where wheat was unknown to have wheat-based products in the Eucharist. Perhaps as an out, though…back in late-medieval England there was a bishop who declared that beef was fish, therefore allowing parishioners in his diocese to eat it on Fridays. Maybe the Pope could do the same and declare soybeans to be wheat. After all, [he might have to answer to the Father soon.](http://in.news.yahoo.com/040816/137/2fiol.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/39 "2004-08-16T22:17:55Z")
Quite a bit of good info here, but I still need to know – am I going to burn for that whole “Cheez Whiz on the Eucharist” incident? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111/40 "2004-08-16T22:26:26Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > Fine, but I still doubt that the average catholic parishioner is aware of those rules. Unless of course I missed the Canon Law segment of catechism class. I’m sure the average Catholic is unaware of those rules. But apparently they are aware enough to suspect that the bread contains wheat , otherwise people wouldn’t be trying to make special arrangements. The priest certainly should have been aware of the rules. The proper response would have been for the priest to offer the wine to the child (or really, to everyone children, so as not to single her out), not to use a wheat free host. I’d really like to know what "declaring her First Holy Communion invalid " is supposed to mean. That she doesn’t get her certificate? That she gets a certificate with a later date, the first date that she received the wine ( a valid and sufficient way to receive the sacrament) ? Does someone actually think she’ll be forced to go throught the sacramental preparation again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-appalling-church-acting-totally-against-god/260111.md?page=3)