# Fucking cops... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087 "2008-11-23T08:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/201 "2008-11-25T00:39:35Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > The lack of self-awareness required to describe the word “weapon” as needlessly dramatic, and yet simultaneously describe ducking defensively as “shriek[ing] like a girl and flopp[ing] on the floor” is positively staggering. Almost awe-inspiring, in fact. I’m going for a satirical effect, not a melodramatic one. > [@](#): > > Oh, and now I see the scenario has advanced so **AD** is in spasm on the floor, emptying his gun at random. Goodness me, it’s a good job you came along to explain what really happened. I was describing a hypothetical. Something which apparently came close to happening. The idea of civilians reaching for guns for such trivial provocation is not very settling. I prefer it when people with training carry guns. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/202 "2008-11-25T00:43:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You asked if it can work if it CAN’T reach you. I think what I asked was if a taser only worked if the object was in reach. You know, as in arm’s reach. Like where you would have to be for a fork to be dangerous. > [@](#): > > Well, too bad for both of them really, because the guy with the gun is going to prison. Self defense is no longer valid? If a guy tazes me it’s just too bad? I had no idea. > [@](#): > > Well, HE said he dove on the floor. Is that different from flopping? Very. > [@](#): > > I just assumed he shrieked like a girl. I could be wrong about that part. It’s just how I pictured it. It was imaginary, then. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/203 "2008-11-25T00:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > **I Love Me, Vol. I** said: > OK. I was exaggerating a bit. I was just pointing out (via hyperbole) that cops generally seem to fare better than civilians when it comes to shooting contests. And I was adding to it, considering some of the stories we have heard about cops who have fired 40 rounds at someone who brandished a wallet. > [@](#): > > **Diogenes the Cynic** said: > I’ll go with the training, maturity and experience of a cop any day over some amateur that thinks he’s in a movie. All the training, maturity and experience that led them to think pulling a taser out and aiming it at someone in a bar was a good idea? Yeah, man, thta’s really reassuring. I don’t know what I would do with all those well-trained, mature and responsible cops out there who aim tasers at people in bars! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/204 "2008-11-25T00:48:06Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Very. While Diogenes, as usual, is doing a good bit of trolling & generally trying to fuck up his own side of things, I’d say that flopping is actually dialing the dramatic knob down a couple of notches from diving. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/205 "2008-11-25T00:48:35Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I think what I asked was if a taser only worked if the object was in reach. You know, as in arm’s reach. Like where you would have to be for a fork to be dangerous. How am I supposed to know what you mean? > [@](#): > > Self defense is no longer valid? If a guy tazes me it’s just too bad? I had no idea. You’re only allowed to use proportional self-defense. You don’t get to kill somebody if your life is not in danger. A taser is not a lethal weapon. > [@](#): > > Very. How so? > [@](#): > > It was imaginary, then. It was hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/206 "2008-11-25T00:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m going for a satirical effect, not a melodramatic one. Aww, and here I was with my money on “hypocritical effect.” It’s so hard to tell with you. Satirical, hypothetical - so _many_ ways of saying “I’m making shit up.” Still, at least we know we can always count on you to call a spade a salad fork, as long as it’s satirically justified. ---
**Author:** ![Punintentional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punintentional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punintentional)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/207 "2008-11-25T00:49:35Z")
> [@FallenAngel](#): > > No, asshole. I drew the pistol behind cover, put it away and went to the house. Hardly idiotic. Are you a cop? Or just some guy who was prepared to blow away the sniper? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/208 "2008-11-25T00:50:34Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Aww, and here I was with my money on “hypocritical effect.” It’s so hard to tell with you. Satirical, hypothetical - so _many_ ways of saying “I’m making shit up.” Still, at least we know we can always count on you to call a spade a salad fork, as long as it’s satirically justified. Both the satirical intent and the hypothetical intent were pretty fucking obvious. My hypothetical was IN REPONSE to a hypothetical, for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/209 "2008-11-25T00:50:36Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Cool story, eh? He was jumping between cars and walking between apartment buildings with a pistol drawn because he saw a laser light on the pavement. You want this guy living in your apartment complex? He’s an idiot. Actually, no, he ducked behind one car, drew his gun, assessed the threat and put his gun away. Then he presented a teaching opportunity for the child’s mother. I don’t know which story you read, but I was reading the one he wrote. > [@yojimbo](#): > > The US may be very different than the places I’m familiar with but I doubt it. If it is your opinion that it is as likely or more so that the instances of people seeing red dots on them or around them is a actual laser sight on a gun rather than some arsehole or kid messing around with a laser pointer then you are welcome to it. I’ve had a gun pointed at me exactly as often (once) as I’ve had a laser dot on my chest. I don’t live in Happy Peaceful Gun-Free Europe, and when I see a laser dot on my chest, I’m not going to take the time to find the origin before I take evasive action. Sure, it’s not likely that I’m going to get shot just walking down the street; it hasn’t happened yet and it probably never will. But it’s possible. I never would have thought that a kid could be sniped right outside my elementary school, right where I got off the bus every morning as a kid, either, but it happened a few years after I moved out of the DC area. I’d rather look like an idiot because of a laser pointer than die because I didn’t take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Punintentional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punintentional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punintentional)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/210 "2008-11-25T00:50:53Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Yeah, man, thta’s really reassuring. I don’t know what I would do with all those well-trained, mature and responsible cops out there who aim tasers at people in bars! As i said earlier, on one hand you have stupid cop, on the other you have GUY WHO IS DRINKING AT A BAR WITH HIS GUN AND OVERREACTS! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/211 "2008-11-25T00:53:36Z")
> [@Punintentional](#): > > As i said earlier, on one hand you have stupid cop, on the other you have GUY WHO IS DRINKING AT A BAR WITH HIS GUN AND OVERREACTS! That basically sums up my view of things too. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/212 "2008-11-25T00:59:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How am I supposed to know what you mean? Sorry I was unclear. Can we agree that the salad fork comparison is silly’ > [@](#): > > You’re only allowed to use proportional self-defense. You don’t get to kill somebody if your life is not in danger. A taser is not a lethal weapon. I’m not sure it’s that clear cut. A taser immobilizes you, and leaves you vulnerable to all sorts of bad shit. If a gun is all you have to defend yourself, does the law really disallow it’s use. I should just sit there and take it? And why is death the only possible outcome from gun use? Can’t it be used to wound? > [@](#): > > How so? You’re a sports guy, right? It’s like the difference between diving for a loose ball in a scrum, and flopping to make it look like you were fouled. > [@](#): > > It was hypothetical. Usually scenarios that are stated as fact are not hypothetical. Hypotheticals tend to have a “what if” air about them. Or to quote someone from inside this very thread, “How am I supposed to know what you mean?” ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/213 "2008-11-25T00:59:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The idea of civilians reaching for guns for such trivial provocation is not very settling. I prefer it when people with training carry guns. I can never quite decide on whether you’re a smart guy who’s occasionally an asshole, an asshole who’s occasionally a smart guy, or about half of each. Lots of times I like what you write, other times I read it and think to myself, “what is going on in this guy’s head?”. This is the latter situation. Did you, by chance, forget that **Airman** is a member of the Air Force reserve and has served two deployments in a war zone? He _is_ trained to carry a gun and do so safely and responsibly. The cop was an idiot. You seem to be in your asshole phase. **Airman** may have overreacted, but I wasn’t there so I can’t judge without much more information. Unlike Mr. Off-duty, he obviously never drew his weapon, so I’d guess he wasn’t overreacting as much as you seem to be right now. In short, stop sounding like a Boston fishwife [\*]3 points to anyone who recognizes the source of that paraphrase. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/214 "2008-11-25T00:59:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ll go with the training, maturity and experience of a cop any day over some amateur that thinks he’s in a movie. Did I miss the part of the thread where you explained how a military veteran equals an untrained amateur, when it comes to fire arms? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/215 "2008-11-25T01:01:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just assumed he shrieked like a girl. I could be wrong about that part. It’s just how I pictured it. Somebody can’t hit the deck without shrieking like a girl? You must hang out with the big dogs, **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/216 "2008-11-25T01:03:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Both the satirical intent and the hypothetical intent were pretty fucking obvious. My hypothetical was IN REPONSE to a hypothetical, for fuck’s sake. It was hypothetical? So what the hell did this mean? > [@](#): > > I just assumed he shrieked like a girl. I could be wrong about that part. It’s just how I pictured it. Either you _assumed he did it_, or you offered it as occurring _hypothetically_. You can’t have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/217 "2008-11-25T01:03:54Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I can never quite decide on whether you’re a smart guy who’s occasionally an asshole, an asshole who’s occasionally a smart guy, or about half of each. Lots of times I like what you write, other times I read it and think to myself, “what is going on in this guy’s head?”. > > This is the latter situation. > > Did you, by chance, forget that **Airman** is a member of the Air Force reserve and has served two deployments in a war zone? He _is_ trained to carry a gun and do so safely and responsibly. Id like to know exactly what his firearms training has been in the AF. I doubt it’s been very extensive, if he’s gotten any at all. He certainly didn’t react like he has any training, and nobody taught him to secure his weapon before he starts drinking. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/218 "2008-11-25T01:05:01Z")
I’ve never made any secret of the fact that I don’t especially like **Airman Doors**. However, in this particular thread I have to agree with him. Douchebag cops oughtn’t to be playing with weapons, less-lethal or otherwise, in bars. What really makes this thread special, though, is the number of pants-wetters soiling themselves because Doors had a gun on his person while he was in a bar. Guess what, pants-wetters? Lots of folks, like yours truly, carry guns everywhere. Bars. Malls. Dry cleaners. Restaurants. Everywhere. I carry concealed primarily as a courtesy to pants-wetters like yourselves. It must be a sad, pitiful life to be so irrationally afraid of an inaminate object. 'Cause here’s the crux of the matter: if I wanted somebody dead, it isn’t the gun that makes it possible. It’s whether I want it enough. Don’t fear guns, pants-wetters. Fear people who have a sincere desire to take your life. Oh, and **Dio**? You’ve covered yourself with stupid in this thread even more than usually. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/219 "2008-11-25T01:05:49Z")
[quote=“Morgyn, post:213, topic:474087”] In short, stop sounding like a Boston fishwife [li]3 points to anyone who recognizes the source of that paraphrase.[/li][/QUOTE] 1776? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/220 "2008-11-25T01:05:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Both the satirical intent and the hypothetical intent were pretty fucking obvious. If you say so. But those people describing a taser as a weapon don’t get the same latitude, obviously. After all, that’s just a _fact_; we can’t be doing with those when there’s satire afoot. Facts are so melodramatic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=12)