# Fucking cops... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087 "2008-11-23T08:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/321 "2008-11-25T19:46:36Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I kind of wonder what kind of bar this was where if a laser light appears you automatically assume that some sniper is trying to take you out. Who would go to a bar and want to kill a stranger with a laser guided weapon? That’s a bar I’d avoid. I’ll be honest. If I get lit up, from an unknown source, I’m going to find cover _quickly._ You never know, and it’s better to be safe than sorry. Sure, the odds are that it’s a yutz with a laser pointer. But it’s a strange world I live in, and you just never know. I figure, your average bar, it’s a fifty-fifty chance it could be either. Laser pointers aren’t the novelty they used to be, and crazy people show up everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/322 "2008-11-25T19:51:07Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I can only assume that the OP had a good reason to carry his weapon to the bar. As for [Phil Spector](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spector) You realize that wasn’t in your first cite, right? And that it indicates nothing about carrying a weapon around? For all you know he kept it there. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/323 "2008-11-25T20:07:18Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Mind you, you’ll notice that I did not state that I in any way agreed with the “Being tased is like the weather: If its inevitable, you might as well lie back enjoy it.” statement. I got it the first time. I just thought your rape analogy was cute, that’s all. > [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I’d be willing to lay money that’s simply because DtC just doesn’t want to take the time to defend his asshattery, not that he’s finally gotten a clue. DtC has a history of saying incredibly stupid shit in one thread, then caving when he’s been called upon it, only to say the exact same shit in another thread later on, when he’s thought that we’ve all forgotten about it. We are, after all, talking about a guy who thinks we went into Iraq not because there was oil there (or WMDs), but because there were plenty of “brown people” to kill. I suspect you’re right. I don’t follow DtC much, I just see him acting rational in everyday threads and then run into him acting like a total asshole in threads like this. > [@catsix](#): > > What, you mean it’s not mature, responsible, and a sign of training to play with a weapon in a bar? If it’s not OK for Doors to have his pistol in a bar, then cops who are not there on official business shouldn’t have theirs either. Or it is OK for the cops who are there not in their capacity as cops to have pistols and tasers, and by extension it is OK for Doors also. I think he was saying that he knows that cops aren’t (necessarily) mature, responsible and well-trained. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > there is a real chance that the situation will escalate from being safe Half-lit cops playing with tasers in a bar is “safe”? Not by any definition of “safe” I use. All it took was a slip of the finger to send thousands of volts of electricity through **Airman Doors** ’s body, and that cop–and us Dopers, for that matter–have no way of knowing that **Airman Doors** has a healthy heart. Assuming that he does, he could presumably be sent into a momentary state of confusion/delirium by the shock, out of which he might have popped up shooting. This entire situation was not even close to “safe”, and that line was crossed when a couple of cops decided that their weapons were toys to be used on random bystanders for laughs. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/324 "2008-11-25T20:11:28Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > This entire situation was not even close to “safe”, and that line was crossed when a couple of cops decided that their weapons were toys to be used on random bystanders for laughs. I don’t see why \*anyone \*can’t see the truth of this. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/325 "2008-11-25T20:12:47Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Half-lit cops playing with tasers in a bar is “safe”? . Even taking out the 'half lit" part. Weapons are not toys, 'playing ’ with them in pretty much any setting is stupid. One can (and should) practice w/them, but they should IMHO be treated w/respect. Most of the dumb shit accidents I hear about occur when some one is ‘playing’ around w/it ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/326 "2008-11-25T20:25:04Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Half-lit cops playing with tasers in a bar is “safe”? Not by any definition of “safe” I use. Safe is a relative term. What is safer, half lit cops playing with a taser or… half lit cops playing with a taser who see a guy dive on the floor and reach for his gun? Doors is very lucky that the cops didn’t look at him and his gun and his actions as a developing threat. That is why his reaction was a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/327 "2008-11-25T20:41:44Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I take it that you don’t have a cite that definitely links dying directly with being tased, otherwise you’d have included one. Right? > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > No, why would I have one of those? Because the point is that nobody, to my knowledge, has made a definite direct link between death and being tased. The guy on the fire escape did have underlying medical issues–mental, in this case–and didn’t die from being tased but rather from the sudden stop at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/328 "2008-11-25T20:42:02Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Safe is a relative term. What is safer, half lit cops playing with a taser or… half lit cops playing with a taser who see a guy dive on the floor and reach for his gun? > > Doors is very lucky that the cops didn’t look at him and his gun and his actions as a developing threat. That is why his reaction was a mistake. Knock knock. Hello? Anybody in there? They were \*already \*looking at him. They were \*\*aiming \*\*at him. Did you miss the memo? I’d say the threat developed when the taser was aimed at at **Doors**. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/329 "2008-11-25T20:42:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Safe is a relative term. What is safer, half lit cops playing with a taser or… half lit cops playing with a taser who see a guy dive on the floor and reach for his gun? I’ll see your absurd argument and raise you a rational comparison. Which is safer: half-lit cops playing with a taser in a bar where they know there are armed and loaded customers, or half-lit cops _not_ playing with a taser in a bar where they know there are armed and loaded customers? Here’s another one. Which is safer: A half-lit off-duty cop in plain clothes aiming a weapon at an armed non-suspect in a bar, or a half-lit off-duty cop in plain clothes _not_ aiming a weapon at an armed non-suspect in a bar? How about this one? Which is safer: A half-lit on-duty cop giving his weapon to an off-duty cop to play a prank on an armed non-suspect in a bar, or…well, you get the picture. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/330 "2008-11-25T20:44:08Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Because the point is that nobody, to my knowledge, has made a definite direct link between death and being tased. The guy on the fire escape did have underlying medical issues–mental, in this case–and didn’t die from being tased but rather from the sudden stop at the bottom. Yes. Yes, gravity should be outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/331 "2008-11-25T20:45:00Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You realize that wasn’t in your first cite, right? And that it indicates nothing about carrying a weapon around? For all you know he kept it there. I’m glad I could eventually introduce you to Phil Specter. I agree that no one knows if he went around armed that night. But he seems to have gone around other times armed. In general, he doesn’t seem to carry arms only for self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/332 "2008-11-25T20:48:49Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I’m glad I could eventually introduce you to Phil Specter. I am very familiar with the story, as well as Spector’s music career. > [@](#): > > I agree that no one knows if he went around armed that night. But he seems to have gone around other times armed. It may seem that way to you, but nothing in your cites suggests it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/333 "2008-11-25T20:55:55Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Yes. Yes, gravity should be outlawed. :rolleyes: The taser was a contributing factor, sure, but did not directly cause death, as I’ve been saying. This guy “fell from the fire escape and was killed”, not “was killed by the taser, then fell.” ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/334 "2008-11-25T21:14:54Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Knock knock. Hello? Anybody in there? They were \*already \*looking at him. They were \*\*aiming \*\*at him. Did you miss the memo? You seem to be mistaking a transitive verb for an intransitive one. See the point was: > [@](#): > > Doors is very lucky that the cops didn’t look at him and his gun and his actions \*\*\*as a developing threat. \*\*\* Bolding and italicizing mine. See the difference? ETA: My point being that, sober or tipsy, hero or douche, if a cop points his weapon at you, your safest course of action is NOT evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/335 "2008-11-25T21:31:33Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Knock knock. Hello? Anybody in there? They were \*already \*looking at him. They were \*\*aiming \*\*at him. Gee, that sounds like the perfect time to hit the deck and reach for your personal weapon. What’s the worst that could happen??? That’s a much better choice than “Hey, quit pointing that thing at me! Idiot!” Say something like that to a cop and he’ll fear for his safety and unload an entire clip of ammo into you. Nothing like that could happen by going for your gun. You’ve convinced me, reaching for a gun and diving on the ground is exactly the right thing to do when two cops are looking at you. ---
**Author:** ![conurepete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@conurepete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conurepete)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/336 "2008-11-25T22:28:29Z")
People’s reactions do vary. Its a bell-shaped curve, most react in the “idiot with a laser pointer zone”, some are a little jumpy, some have mad-dog coffee nerves. Some are on the end of the curve and will stare stupidly at a gun until they are shot dead. If you aim tasers randomly at people, you will eventually get the whole spectrum. Those cops knew darned well there is every brand of crazy out there, and the reaction they provoked is on them. People are potentially dangerous . People also have the ability to be batshit and never cause real trouble unless someone aims a weapon at them and boils over the previously simmering paranoia. ( I am not saying AD is nuts, or overreacting ) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/337 "2008-11-26T10:27:13Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](#): > > The intention of the actor is a question of fact. My exact words were: an argument could be made. We don’t know the intent of the wielder, but there are grounds for making a case. > > My point to you was only that the object does not have to be capable of causing “serious injury” as defined under PA law for it to amount to an assault charge. Sure if you are talking about a hypothetical that has nothing to do with the OP then sure. If you are talking about the OP at, then no. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/338 "2008-11-26T10:31:49Z")
I am curious about the OP’s absence in this thread. He has been shy with the details of what happened during and after. Here is my new idea of what happened. He was in a bar, saw someone with a laser pointer, got scared but didn’t react, fantasized his overdone reaction later on, and posted here thinking people would share his outrage instead of making fun of what a ridiculous thing it is to hit the floor in a bar. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/339 "2008-11-26T11:19:19Z")
Sapo, cite, please. Or I’ll be forced to believe that you typed the last post with your engorged phallus, having been unable to remove the straps on your straightjacket. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/340 "2008-11-26T11:38:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Sapo, cite, please. Or I’ll be forced to believe that you typed the last post with your engorged phallus, having been unable to remove the straps on your straightjacket. Never underestimate the power on my engorged phallus. What do you mean cite? A youtube video of AD doing nothing and a brain scan of him making shit up? He posted, it backfired, he slinked. The rest, as I said, is my take on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=18)