# Fucking cops... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087 "2008-11-23T08:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/61 "2008-11-23T22:39:36Z")
> [@SharkB8](#): > > Why you? I mean, seriously. Who does that? Just mess with a random stranger? > > … > I just ask if the cops knew you were in the military. Maybe they, foolishly, thought you might think it was funny too… > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I come to find that it is an off-duty police officer pointing a Taser in my direction, pulling a trick on another friend of mine. It sounds like the off-duty cop was friends with one of **AD** ’s friends and didn’t think **AD** would notice a red dot on his own chest, but his buddy would and would not spring into action as he is already aware that his cop friends were in the bar and were most likely pulling a prank. Maybe **AD** will be back to verify. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/62 "2008-11-23T22:46:50Z")
I understand that pointing a gun at someone is called “Assault”. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/63 "2008-11-23T22:50:33Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > The fuck? A WEAPON was pointed at him. How is he going to decide whether this tool was playing a joke or ready to incapacitate him/kill him? > > I guarantee, that if the situations were reversed and a cop had a taser pointed at him by a civilian: > > 1. The civilian would have been shot and killed. > > 2. You would be here defending the cops as being completely and totally justified. > > 3. Fuck you. Maybe we’re from two different panets then. I’ve had a couple of idiots point a red dot at me in a bar but it turned out, much as I thought at the time, it was just some dildo with a laser pen pointer. So OK, the OP is ex military, maybe he’s conditioned to react a differnt way. So be it. My main issue is with **Hostile Dialect** who seems to think cops are a plague to society, which is just beyond stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/64 "2008-11-23T22:54:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > And hopefully he doesn’t run into the blue wall when he tries it. Perhaps the chief of police will take the complaint seriously, as he should. Then again it’s also possible that Doors ends up on the wrong side of a grudge by cops who think he slighted them by reporting their insanely stupid behavior. Exactly. > [@What Exit?](#): > > Never ever head it as such before today. Seconded. I’m guessing it’s a Canadian thing. And like Jim, I’m no real friend of **Airman Doors, USAF** but don’t feel there was any racial motive behind the use of that word. Also, I agree with this: > [@What Exit?](#): > > In general and not to Brandon: People get way too caught up on words, even when it is shown they are not racist they still can’t seem to drop it. It was one word that did not mean in Airman’s case what posters want to read into it. Please be a little less sensitive everyone. Look for context, history of the poster and maybe do a little googling. * * * > [@DanBlather](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority here. He saw a laser pointer dot and reached for his gun, which he was carrying in a bar. Holy, crap! This could have been a fucking disaster in which someone not wielding the Taser was killed. If your reflexes are that strong maybe you shouldn’t be carrying a gun around, especially in a bar. > > I’d feel differently if he’d seen the man pointing the Taser; that might look like a gun. It doesn’t _look like_ a gun; it _is_ a gun. > [@Gala Matrix Fire](#): > > If this incident had resulted in a shooting, I’d pin the blame on the guy who was drinking in a bar witha loaded weapon on him, not the guy who was playing with a laser pointer. Where the hell did anyone get the idea that there was a laser pointer in any of this? Nobody was playing with a laser pointer, _a cop_ was playing with _a weapon_. In the words of the late George Carlin: “Let me repeat that one more time, because it sounds _vaguely important!_” An _officer of the law_ was _playing_ with _a weapon_ in a bar. You don’t see a problem with this? > [@constanze](#): > > But this is too broad. There’s a lot of difference between a German or European cop and an US one, both from training and how they perceive their jobs and duties. Not that no German cop is a jerk - there are jerks everywhere, and we have ugly incidents, too. But it’s not that shit that happens regularly in the US (going by what’s reported on this board alone) is what happens regularly over here. Fair enough. I don’t have any reason to disbelieve you. > [@SHAKES](#): > > As someone who grew up with police in their family I can asure you MOST cops would be appauled by the police officers behaviour in the OP. Trust me sir, your quality of life is MUCH better thanks to law enforcement. I’m sure the cops you know are fine cops, just like the cops everyone knows. But I didn’t make up any of that. I think you mean “appalled”, by the way. > [@SHAKES](#): > > As far as the OP goes; He has every right to be upset but “hitting the deck” is a little overe the top in my opinion. Really? What do you do when someone points a weapon at you (aka assaults you)? Buy them a drink? The fact that this clown is on a government salary doesn’t make it any better–in fact, it makes it much, much worse. Any asshole can go around, well, being an asshole down at the local, but it’s much worse when that asshole has taken an oath to protect and serve. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/65 "2008-11-23T22:56:21Z")
Putting them all in a pedestal is just as stupid, IMHO. You wouldn’t do that with the guys working at the local walmart loading dock, what makes you think cops are somehow different than them? It is because they are likely anyone else that we HAVE to make sure those who are not professional in their job/duties, who fuck around with weapons, who abuse their power are quickly and efficiently removed from the force. In my experience this is not what usually happens. Not the least of reasons is because of people like you who think they can do no wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/66 "2008-11-23T22:56:50Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I understand that pointing a gun at someone is called “Assault”. In the U.S., I doubt what has been described would be considered assault in most jurisdictions, and according to a lawyer’s website linked to below, it wouldn’t be assault in PA, which is where the OP lives. > [@](#): > > Under Pennsylvania assault laws, a person is guilty of assault if a person intentionally or knowingly causes bodily harm to another, or attempts to do so putting another in fear of injury. [http://www.pennsylvania-criminal-defense.com/assault.htm](http://www.pennsylvania-criminal-defense.com/assault.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/67 "2008-11-24T00:12:22Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > In the U.S., I doubt what has been described would be considered assault in most jurisdictions, and according to a lawyer’s website linked to below, it wouldn’t be assault in PA, which is where the OP lives. > > [http://www.pennsylvania-criminal-defense.com/assault.htm](http://www.pennsylvania-criminal-defense.com/assault.htm) As a matter of fact, I believe that it would be considered assault if I were to press the matter, under the portion of the statute that addresses “fear of injury”. As for the events of last night, I did speak with a police supervisor and aired my grievance, and he told me that it would be addressed. We’ll see what happens from here. As for me taking evasive actions when I saw the laser beam, I made the assumption that it was a gun sight, which was somewhat vindicated by the fact that it was a weapon. Last, I was there with my sister and a few friends of mine. I was not intoxicated. One more thing: I had no idea that “zipperhead” was an ethnic slur. Now that I do I will refrain from saying it in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/68 "2008-11-24T00:23:30Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > As a matter of fact, I believe that it would be considered assault if I were to press the matter, under the portion of the statute that addresses “fear of injury”. It doesn’t work that way; the whole statute has to be read in context. One must be in fear of injury **because** another has intentionally or knowingly **caused** , or attempted to cause bodily harm. If I raise my hand in an attempt to hit someone, I have assaulted them. If after that I follow through with a punch, there has been assault and battery. If I jokingly raise my hand as if I were going to hit someone, an assault has not been committed because my intent is not to cause bodily harm. Whether or not the victim of my joke was frightened is irrelevant; intent matters here. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/69 "2008-11-24T00:45:28Z")
**Airman Doors** , I commend you for having the clarity of thought in a possible-combat situation to identify your target before you drew. If I had had military training, I probably would have acted to acquire the target then identify it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/70 "2008-11-24T00:45:32Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I understand that pointing a gun at someone is called “Assault”. I dunno about LEO “rules-of-engagement,” but in my time in the Army, pointing a weapon at a person was deemed a “Hostile Act.” _Our_ rules-of-engagement (which are typically Command or Theater specific) said it was okay to pop the top on a can of whup-ass when that happened; we didn’t have to wait for the zipperhead\* to actually pull a trigger. Generally Addressing The “Zipperhead” Commentaries: \*In Army/military context, a zipperhead was a dumb-ass, an enemy, a superior, a civvie, basically, anyone you didn’t particulalry care for, either now “at this moment,” or just a general dislike. It was applied to anyone who deserved it, regardless of rank, race, color, creed, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, hairstyle, deodorant choice, or fashion sense. I firmly believe that it was in this context the **Doors** was using it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/71 "2008-11-24T00:59:16Z")
I would agree that it was in that context Doors was using it. It confused me, because I knew it was an ethnic slur. And I know Doors wouldn’t use an ethnic slur carelessly. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/72 "2008-11-24T01:07:35Z")
Hi **Airman** Yeah I figured I had to read this post, considering you are usually on the side of law and order. I sure as Hell don’t blame you one bit for feeling that you might be a potential target. As I 've said here many times my father, a WW2 veteran, was always very strict about the handling of weapons. He never considered any firearm unloaded - ever. Your pointing a weapon at anyone meant there is an intention to shoot that person. Not wanting to have my firearm priveleges eternally revoked I always followed his rule - always. With my family, there was never anything even close to a firearm accident. Basically, when you are using firearms you don’t fuck around. :mad: As for non-lethal weapons, here in Boston, a young woman was killed back in 2004 by a pepper spray “launcher”. [http://media.www.berkeleybeacon.com/media/storage/paper169/news/2005/10/27/News/Snelgrove.Remembered.At.Memorial.Protest-1039896.shtml](http://media.www.berkeleybeacon.com/media/storage/paper169/news/2005/10/27/News/Snelgrove.Remembered.At.Memorial.Protest-1039896.shtml) I’d definitely report that incident to the police. If they think you are over-reacting, why not say “Yeah, I should have just walked into the police station with a toy gun and pointed it at everyone. We’d all have a good laugh over that wouldn’t we?” Gee, as someone else said, these threats take on an entirely different perception when it’s a citizen taking aim on a policeman. As for the zipperhead comment, I never thought it was a racial or ethnic slur either. Well, one more rule of political correctness to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/73 "2008-11-24T01:07:48Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > It doesn’t work that way; the whole statute has to be read in context. One must be in fear of injury **because** another has intentionally or knowingly **caused** , or attempted to cause bodily harm. > > If I raise my hand in an attempt to hit someone, I have assaulted them. If after that I follow through with a punch, there has been assault and battery. If I jokingly raise my hand as if I were going to hit someone, an assault has not been committed because my intent is not to cause bodily harm. Whether or not the victim of my joke was frightened is irrelevant; intent matters here. IANAL, nor do I have any expertise in this area. My understanding comes from an old edition of the World Book Encyclopedia, read long ago. Findlaw discusses [assault basics](http://injury.findlaw.com/assault-and-battery/assault-basics.html) > [@Findlaw](#): > > Assault is an intentional attempt or threat to inflict injury upon a person, coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm, which creates a reasonable apprehension of bodily harm or offensive contact in another. Assault does not require actual touching or bodily harm to the victim. Assault and battery are sometimes used interchangeably, but battery is an unjustified harmful or offensive touching of another. Battery also differs from assault in that it does not require the victim to be in apprehension of harm. IMHO, the comedian in the OP intentionally threatened to inflict injury - the threat was a joke though. It was not an _attempt_ to inflict injury. It was a _threat_ to inflict it – that’s what makes it so funny! It was not battery, since no injury occurred. As to whether the actions constitutes assault, I’ll have to defer to others more knowledgeable. It certainly reflected poor judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/74 "2008-11-24T01:20:13Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > IANAL, nor do I have any expertise in this area. My understanding comes from an old edition of the World Book Encyclopedia, read long ago. You don’t think it’s more reasonable to stick with the cite I provided from a lawyer in the OP’s state and not an old edition of the World Book Encyclopedia? > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > It was not an _attempt_ to inflict injury. It was a _threat_ to inflict it – that’s what makes it so funny! No, jokes aren’t threats, even if they’re meant to frighten one to momentarily believe there’s been a threat. You’re trying too hard to make this something it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/75 "2008-11-24T01:58:13Z")
If the situation were reversed (and with the same type of device), I doubt that **Airman Doors** would have been able to post his displeasure at the incident. Q ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/76 "2008-11-24T02:14:05Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > It doesn’t work that way; the whole statute has to be read in context. One must be in fear of injury **because** another has intentionally or knowingly **caused** , or attempted to cause bodily harm. > > If I raise my hand in an attempt to hit someone, I have assaulted them. If after that I follow through with a punch, there has been assault and battery. If I jokingly raise my hand as if I were going to hit someone, an assault has not been committed because my intent is not to cause bodily harm. Whether or not the victim of my joke was frightened is irrelevant; intent matters here. What if I point a realistic looking toy gun at you? Is that assault? It is not a real weapon and it can cause no harm, but you don’t know that and might take it for real. I think this is more or less the case here, only that what you are seeing is not the shape of the gun but the laser guide. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/77 "2008-11-24T02:20:36Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > What if I point a realistic looking toy gun at you? Is that assault? No. > [@Sapo](#): > > It is not a real weapon and it can cause no harm, but you don’t know that and might take it for real. Irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/78 "2008-11-24T02:26:56Z")
Even if it’s not assault, it is still brandishing a weapon. In some places this is a specific crime, in others (such as NH) it falls under either “criminal threatening” or “reckless conduct”, both of which are felonies if the weapon involved is “known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury”. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/79 "2008-11-24T02:41:44Z")
I’ve certainly defended the police in the past - I used to hang with law enforcement officers back in Yurp - and I’ve trained enough with them to gain a slight realization of how hard their job can be, how fast they’re at times forced to make decisions and how anyone who meets mostly either the crooks or victims of society needs to develop certain attitudes to remain sane… But this is not an event that can be defended. An off-duty police officer waving about a service weapon - in a bar, of all places? Unprofessional does not begin to cover it. His boss needs to set him straight, post haste. Police officers have certain privileges - some formal, some informal - needed to do their jobs. Being exempt from common-sense attitudes as regards arms is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/80 "2008-11-24T02:50:17Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > So here I was in my local bar. I’m talking with a bunch of my friends, having a good time, the whole deal. Next thing I know I have a laser pointer directly in the middle of my chest. After I hit the deck and reach for my personal weapon (note: it is legal in Pennsylvania to carry a weapon in a bar), I come to find that it is an off-duty police officer pointing a Taser in my direction, pulling a trick on another friend of mine. Fortunately for me, I did not draw my weapon. I just hit the ground. > [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Really? What do you do when someone points a weapon at you (aka assaults you)? Buy them a drink? > > The fact that this clown is on a government salary doesn’t make it any better–in fact, it makes it much, much worse. Any asshole can go around, well, being an asshole down at the local, but it’s much worse when that asshole has taken an oath to protect and serve. Go back and reread the OP. \*\*Airman, hit the deck before he even knew what was going on. And again I share you outrage that a fucking cop was acting so obtusely. But this in no way indicates that all or even most cops are “the evil”. And I’m sorry, leagal or not guns in bars is just stupid. What if **Airman** or the obtuse cop had been just a little more intoxicated, used poorer judgement and killed somebody? Is it OK to drink and drive in that state too? Sounds about just as smart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=5)