# Fucking cops... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087 "2008-11-23T08:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/161 "2008-11-24T19:06:56Z")
This whole military training canard is starting to bother me. The reaction described in the OP is more likely a result of lack of training. The most important thing taught in combat training is not to blindly react the first most important rule is to evaluate the situation. In other words, nothing I was taught or experienced in the military would lead me to “hit the deck” without knowing what the threat was. There is every possibility that blindly reacting will get you in more trouble than the threat you are blindly reacting to. Besides once you are painted with a laser designator the shooter can pull the trigger much faster than you can “hit the deck” in short once you see the dot you are already a dead man if the person wants you dead. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/162 "2008-11-24T19:07:50Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I can’t get on board with the overreaction sentiment. Survival instinct is a _good_ thing. No, it most certainly isn’t always a good thing. I can’t help but depart from this thread with the impression that people who overreact to laser pointers do so because they recognize a situation that will give them an opportunity to tell someone their particular story. “It’s okay, everybody! I have some sort of training!!” ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/163 "2008-11-24T19:09:35Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > This whole military training canard is starting to bother me. The reaction described in the OP is more likely a result of lack of training. The most important thing taught in combat training is not to blindly react the first most important rule is to asses the situation. In other words, nothing I was taught or experienced in the military would lead me to “hit the deck” without knowing what the threat was. There is every possibility that blindly reacting will get you in more trouble than the threat you are blindly reacting to. Besides once you are painted with a laser designator the shooter can pull the trigger much faster than you can “hit the deck” in short once you see the dot you are already a dead man if the person wants you dead. Exactly. I was under the impression that “knowledge of your surroundings and/or setting” was an important point in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/164 "2008-11-24T19:12:42Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I can’t get on board with the overreaction sentiment. Survival instinct is a _good_ thing. Read post #109 and see if that makes sense to you. He was more apt to bring harm than protect against it. The OP said, “I come to find that it is an off-duty police officer pointing a Taser in my direction”. What if he wasn’t able to come to that conclusion while lying on the floor of his local bar reaching for a gun (and I’m curious how he did)? He could have fired a shot or one of two cops could have fired at him. Jumping to the ground reaching for a gun in your local bar because of a red dot isn’t good survival instinct; it’s just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/165 "2008-11-24T19:15:35Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I can’t get on board with the overreaction sentiment. Survival instinct is a _good_ thing. Not as good as calm cool evaluation then reaction. You would not think the survival instinct is so hot when you are trying to save a drowning person and they express their survival instinct by flailing around and drowning you both. Besides you can’t tell me that “hitting the deck” in a bar in Pennsylvania in response to a dot on your chest is “survival instinct”. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/166 "2008-11-24T19:16:37Z")
The manner in which the TC reacted is beside the point. His rant was based on the poor judgment displayed by the off duty officer. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/167 "2008-11-24T19:18:34Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > The manner in which the TC reacted is beside the point. His rant was based on the poor judgment displayed by the off duty officer. And our response is based on our interpretation of the whole situation as presented in the OP. Are you suggesting that we are limited to agreeing with the OP? In the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/168 "2008-11-24T19:26:58Z")
I am trying to picture the scene as if it was happening in my local bar… Lets see, ON-DUTY cops in a bar…nope, can’t picture it. Guy bringing a gun to a bar… What the hell!!! Why no, I dont live in America, how did you know? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/169 "2008-11-24T19:38:58Z")
_The Mean Streets of Carlisle_, where I thought the only danger was a drunk fratboy puking on your shoes…little did I know that it’s necessary to be strapping at a bar… because of half-lit Barney Fifes playing with their tasers. ::shudder:: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/170 "2008-11-24T20:40:58Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Unless something changed in the [past two years](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7970836&highlight=taser#post7970836), anyone who died after being tasered likely had an underlying medical condition and was not directly killed by the taser itself. Are you including cases where the supposed cause of death was “excited delerium”? ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/171 "2008-11-24T20:50:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Having one drink while carrying is irresponsible. It’s not for the drinker to judge when he is or si not intoxicated. You don’t go strapped if you’re going to drink – especially when there isn’t a single reason in the world to be carrying a gun in the first place. Is having one drink and then driving irresponsible? If so, how come they set a blood limit instead? Do all cops who stop for a beer after work secure their weapons first? Or are they different? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/172 "2008-11-24T20:56:55Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Is having one drink and then driving irresponsible? In my opinion, yes. > [@](#): > > If so, how come they set a blood limit instead? Because I’m not in charge. > [@](#): > > Do all cops who stop for a beer after work secure their weapons first? Or are they different? No idea. If they don’t, they should. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/173 "2008-11-24T21:01:20Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Is having one drink and then driving irresponsible? If so, how come they set a blood limit instead? Apples and oranges. It’s generally accepted that bringing guns to bars is not a good idea. > [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Do all cops who stop for a beer after work secure their weapons first? Or are they different? “All cops” don’t do everything alike. My friends that are cops do secure their weapons first. Civilians should do the same. [http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/1756393-Experts-warn-police-Guns-and-bars-are-bad-recipe/](http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/1756393-Experts-warn-police-Guns-and-bars-are-bad-recipe/) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/174 "2008-11-24T21:07:25Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > “All cops” don’t do everything alike. My friends that are cops do secure their weapons first. Civilians should do the same. Members of the police force ARE civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/175 "2008-11-24T21:20:47Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Members of the police force ARE civilians. Sorry, there’s no rule in English that says this is so. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/176 "2008-11-24T21:21:59Z")
I will agree that bringing a weapon into a bar is a really, really bad idea. Bad for **Airman Doors**. He should not do that again. But the cop should be fired, and immediately. He is supposed to know better. It was a **weapon**. It was capable of causing exteme pain (anyone who’s seen the demonstrations on TV know this), it was capable of being discharged accidentally (anything with a trigger can be accidentally discharged, _especially if be being treated like a toy_) and it could cause death (the idiot excuse-for-a-cop had no way of knowing if ANYONE in range had any medical conditions). ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/177 "2008-11-24T21:24:06Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Sorry, there’s no rule in English that says this is so. > [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian) Sorry - my overstatement. I just get pissed at cops thinking they are separate from civilians, as some branch of the military. I think cops thinking of themselves that way, and also people referring to them that way, is a bad path to go down. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/178 "2008-11-24T21:37:44Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I just get pissed at cops thinking they are separate from civilians, as some branch of the military. Then don’t read [this](http://forums.realpolice.net/showthread.php?t=43023) thread. 😃 A lot of machismo there. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/179 "2008-11-24T22:15:28Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Are you including cases where the supposed cause of death was “excited delerium”? I’m going by what studies say. As stated in the post I linked, I am not aware of any study that made a definite link between death and being tased. Unless there’s been a new study in the past two years that does show a link, I’m going with “underliying medical condition”. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087/180 "2008-11-24T22:16:58Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > But, are you really saying that if you saw a red dot on your chest that you’d assume it was someone pointing a gun at you? You don’t really see guns in California bars, but if people were packing at my local, then, yes, that would be my first assumption. That said, I’ve never been aimed at with a laser sight, so it could very well look different or something. I don’t know. > [@yojimbo](#): > > He would have reacted the same way if the light came from a laser pointer(a much more likely option). How is that more likely? I haven’t seen or heard of someone shining a laser pointer at other people for kicks since I was in seventh grade. When was the last time someone shined a laser pointer at you at the local? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It was a taser, not a gun. Continuing to call it a “weapon” is unnecessarily dramatic. If it’s not a weapon, what is it? Even Taser themselves [call it a weapon](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taser.com%2FSiteCollectionDocuments%2FControlled%2520Documents%2FLegal%2Fmemorandumoflaw.pdf&ei=dyIrSaGzO5WksAOC-53cAQ&usg=AFQjCNEC29EASbxSd6Z5RJxPs1SeOYOX8A&sig2=5swE1_w5QMuHyZtebZeBqw) ( **PDF WARNING** ). > [@askeptic](#): > > Yeah, because cops are so used to being targeted by snipers with expensive laser sights their first reaction is going to be “SNIPER…IN A BAR!!! NO WAY IT"S JUST AN IDIOT WITH A LASER POINTER”. Laser sights are often attached to handguns, too. [This $30 laser sight comes up on a simple Google Shopping search without even having to scroll down.](http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=288) We’re not talking about high-tech shit here. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s a non-deadly “projectile,” No, it’s a less-lethal projectile, meaning that it’s less likely to kill you than a slug. Which is not the safety standard I typically apply to toys and bar pranks. YMMV. > [@FallenAngel](#): > > I holstered my pistol, stormed up to the apartment, knocked on the door and explained politely but clearly to the mother, after all she wasn’t the one who played the stupid prank so there was no cause to yell at her, why it was such a bad idea for her kid to do that kind of thing. She got right on board, hauled the kid out, made him apologize and gave me the pointer. I still have it and use it in presentations to this day. That’s a cool story. I would’ve just fired a warning shot, m’self. Taught the kid a lesson. But that’s why it’s a good reason I don’t carry 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-cops/474087.md?page=10)