It sounds like the off-duty cop was friends with one of AD’s friends and didn’t think AD would notice a red dot on his own chest, but his buddy would and would not spring into action as he is already aware that his cop friends were in the bar and were most likely pulling a prank. Maybe AD will be back to verify.
I understand that pointing a gun at someone is called “Assault”.
Maybe we’re from two different panets then. I’ve had a couple of idiots point a red dot at me in a bar but it turned out, much as I thought at the time, it was just some dildo with a laser pen pointer.
So OK, the OP is ex military, maybe he’s conditioned to react a differnt way. So be it.
My main issue is with Hostile Dialect who seems to think cops are a plague to society, which is just beyond stupidity.
Exactly.
Seconded. I’m guessing it’s a Canadian thing. And like Jim, I’m no real friend of Airman Doors, USAF but don’t feel there was any racial motive behind the use of that word. Also, I agree with this:
It doesn’t look like a gun; it is a gun.
Where the hell did anyone get the idea that there was a laser pointer in any of this? Nobody was playing with a laser pointer, a cop was playing with a weapon.
In the words of the late George Carlin: “Let me repeat that one more time, because it sounds vaguely important!”
An officer of the law
was playing
with a weapon
in a bar.
You don’t see a problem with this?
Fair enough. I don’t have any reason to disbelieve you.
I’m sure the cops you know are fine cops, just like the cops everyone knows. But I didn’t make up any of that. I think you mean “appalled”, by the way.
Really? What do you do when someone points a weapon at you (aka assaults you)? Buy them a drink?
The fact that this clown is on a government salary doesn’t make it any better–in fact, it makes it much, much worse. Any asshole can go around, well, being an asshole down at the local, but it’s much worse when that asshole has taken an oath to protect and serve.
Putting them all in a pedestal is just as stupid, IMHO. You wouldn’t do that with the guys working at the local walmart loading dock, what makes you think cops are somehow different than them?
It is because they are likely anyone else that we HAVE to make sure those who are not professional in their job/duties, who fuck around with weapons, who abuse their power are quickly and efficiently removed from the force.
In my experience this is not what usually happens. Not the least of reasons is because of people like you who think they can do no wrong.
In the U.S., I doubt what has been described would be considered assault in most jurisdictions, and according to a lawyer’s website linked to below, it wouldn’t be assault in PA, which is where the OP lives.
As a matter of fact, I believe that it would be considered assault if I were to press the matter, under the portion of the statute that addresses “fear of injury”.
As for the events of last night, I did speak with a police supervisor and aired my grievance, and he told me that it would be addressed. We’ll see what happens from here.
As for me taking evasive actions when I saw the laser beam, I made the assumption that it was a gun sight, which was somewhat vindicated by the fact that it was a weapon.
Last, I was there with my sister and a few friends of mine. I was not intoxicated.
One more thing: I had no idea that “zipperhead” was an ethnic slur. Now that I do I will refrain from saying it in the future.
It doesn’t work that way; the whole statute has to be read in context. One must be in fear of injury because another has intentionally or knowingly caused, or attempted to cause bodily harm.
If I raise my hand in an attempt to hit someone, I have assaulted them. If after that I follow through with a punch, there has been assault and battery. If I jokingly raise my hand as if I were going to hit someone, an assault has not been committed because my intent is not to cause bodily harm. Whether or not the victim of my joke was frightened is irrelevant; intent matters here.
Airman Doors, I commend you for having the clarity of thought in a possible-combat situation to identify your target before you drew. If I had had military training, I probably would have acted to acquire the target then identify it.
I dunno about LEO “rules-of-engagement,” but in my time in the Army, pointing a weapon at a person was deemed a “Hostile Act.” Our rules-of-engagement (which are typically Command or Theater specific) said it was okay to pop the top on a can of whup-ass when that happened; we didn’t have to wait for the zipperhead* to actually pull a trigger.
Generally Addressing The “Zipperhead” Commentaries:
*In Army/military context, a zipperhead was a dumb-ass, an enemy, a superior, a civvie, basically, anyone you didn’t particulalry care for, either now “at this moment,” or just a general dislike.
It was applied to anyone who deserved it, regardless of rank, race, color, creed, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, hairstyle, deodorant choice, or fashion sense.
I firmly believe that it was in this context the Doors was using it.
I would agree that it was in that context Doors was using it. It confused me, because I knew it was an ethnic slur. And I know Doors wouldn’t use an ethnic slur carelessly.
Hi Airman
Yeah I figured I had to read this post, considering you are usually on the side of law and order.
I sure as Hell don’t blame you one bit for feeling that you might be a potential target.
As I 've said here many times my father, a WW2 veteran, was always very strict about the handling of weapons. He never considered any firearm unloaded - ever. Your pointing a weapon at anyone meant there is an intention to shoot that person. Not wanting to have my firearm priveleges eternally revoked I always followed his rule - always. With my family, there was never anything even close to a firearm accident. Basically, when you are using firearms you don’t fuck around. :mad:
As for non-lethal weapons, here in Boston, a young woman was killed back in 2004 by a pepper spray “launcher”.
http://media.www.berkeleybeacon.com/media/storage/paper169/news/2005/10/27/News/Snelgrove.Remembered.At.Memorial.Protest-1039896.shtml
I’d definitely report that incident to the police. If they think you are over-reacting, why not say “Yeah, I should have just walked into the police station with a toy gun and pointed it at everyone. We’d all have a good laugh over that wouldn’t we?”
Gee, as someone else said, these threats take on an entirely different perception when it’s a citizen taking aim on a policeman.
As for the zipperhead comment, I never thought it was a racial or ethnic slur either. Well, one more rule of political correctness to follow.
IANAL, nor do I have any expertise in this area. My understanding comes from an old edition of the World Book Encyclopedia, read long ago.
Findlaw discusses assault basics
IMHO, the comedian in the OP intentionally threatened to inflict injury - the threat was a joke though. It was not an attempt to inflict injury. It was a threat to inflict it – that’s what makes it so funny!
It was not battery, since no injury occurred.
As to whether the actions constitutes assault, I’ll have to defer to others more knowledgeable. It certainly reflected poor judgment.
You don’t think it’s more reasonable to stick with the cite I provided from a lawyer in the OP’s state and not an old edition of the World Book Encyclopedia?
No, jokes aren’t threats, even if they’re meant to frighten one to momentarily believe there’s been a threat. You’re trying too hard to make this something it is not.
If the situation were reversed (and with the same type of device), I doubt that Airman Doors would have been able to post his displeasure at the incident.
Q
What if I point a realistic looking toy gun at you? Is that assault? It is not a real weapon and it can cause no harm, but you don’t know that and might take it for real. I think this is more or less the case here, only that what you are seeing is not the shape of the gun but the laser guide.
No.
Irrelevant.
Even if it’s not assault, it is still brandishing a weapon. In some places this is a specific crime, in others (such as NH) it falls under either “criminal threatening” or “reckless conduct”, both of which are felonies if the weapon involved is “known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury”.
I’ve certainly defended the police in the past - I used to hang with law enforcement officers back in Yurp - and I’ve trained enough with them to gain a slight realization of how hard their job can be, how fast they’re at times forced to make decisions and how anyone who meets mostly either the crooks or victims of society needs to develop certain attitudes to remain sane… But this is not an event that can be defended.
An off-duty police officer waving about a service weapon - in a bar, of all places? Unprofessional does not begin to cover it. His boss needs to set him straight, post haste. Police officers have certain privileges - some formal, some informal - needed to do their jobs. Being exempt from common-sense attitudes as regards arms is not one of them.
Go back and reread the OP. **Airman, hit the deck before he even knew what was going on.
And again I share you outrage that a fucking cop was acting so obtusely. But this in no way indicates that all or even most cops are “the evil”.
And I’m sorry, leagal or not guns in bars is just stupid. What if Airman or the obtuse cop had been just a little more intoxicated, used poorer judgement and killed somebody?
Is it OK to drink and drive in that state too? Sounds about just as smart.