Oh, please. I was in the military. I was not trained to dive on the floor like a hysterical little girl just because somebody pointed a light at me in a bar.
When did Airman ever have laser sights pointed at him anyway? It wasn’t in Iraq. I don’t think he’s even been in a firefight, has he?
In any case, it was bitch-like behavior on his part. And irresponsible to take a gun to go drinking.
I can’t imagine living in a world where the first reaction to seeing a red spot on you is not to think “Where’s the fucker with the laser pointer?”.
I also wouldn’t go near anyone who was drinking while carrying a gun.
Good on you, and kudos for doing the right thing and reporting this. Hopefully this gets taken as seriously as it should be. In San Diego, I don’t know what kind of shit would go down if a cop pointed a weapon at a Marine in a bar (you can’t swing a dead cat in a bar without hitting a Marine here). I know it would be ugly, though.
That’s not just his opinion, that’s practically the Golden Rule of Gun Safety: “don’t point a weapon at something unless you want to shoot it”. That’s basic shit. That’s the first thing I learned at the rifle range at Boy Scout camp, fercrissakes. You’d think a police officer would have at least the gun-handling skills of a well-prepared 12-year-old. For someone assigned a disabling and possibly lethal weapon in a position of authority is unconscionable.
Nevermind that; to anyone who’s ever had a cop for an uncle, that didn’t happen, cops are always right, and every story of a bad experience with a cop is automatically wrong by default.
No, Airman Doors hit the deck after finding a laser dot on his chest. His first assumption was that a weapon was being aimed at him, and that assumption was correct. A weapon was, in fact, being aimed at him. By one of the very people his taxes pay to protect him from the darker elements of our society, no less. Except that in this case, the cop was the darker element, brandishing a weapon on an innocent bystander in a bar.
What I said was that I don’t trust the police, and for good reason, not that “all or even most cops are ‘the evil’”. It only takes one evil or, more likely, incompetent/immature cop to ruin an innocent person’s life. I said that this kind of incompetency and immaturity is systemic in police forces, just like in every other kind of workplace. I challenge you to find me a police department anywhere in the world that doesn’t have one cop stupid or immature or drunk enough to try something like this.
Look, the point here is that a person in a special position of authority was given a weapon and used it like a toy in a bar, where he, his victim, his buddy and others could have all easily gotten hospitalized or killed. As ExTank said, in the military, when someone points a gun at you, you blow their head off. That’s what separates the living from the dead. Luckily for Airman Doors, the cop wasn’t actually going to shoot him, and luckily for the cop, Airman Doors was together enough to ascertain the exact nature of the threat to his person instead of doing something rash. This is a problem. This is a big problem. Play with fire enough times, you’re gonna get burned.
That said, I won’t weigh in on the guns-in-bars issue. I’m torn on it, myself, for political reasons that I don’t think are relevant to this discussion. On a personal level, sure, I’ll agree with you that it’s probably not a good idea to bring a gun to a bar. But my perspective might be different if I carried my gun everywhere–and my perspective on that might be different if I had seen battle.
And if the cop hadn’t pointed a gun at him, none of this would be an issue.
My perspective is that every institution everywhere is going to have idiots in it. It’s possible, though, that I’ve severely underestimated the screening process in place in other first-world countries’ police forces.
You’re shitting me, right? We’re getting on the OP’s case for reacting as though he were targeted with a weapon? He was targeted with a weapon. If someone had pointed a pistol at him, intending to fire it (or with slippery fingers, or having had too much to drink, or having had a shitty day, or…), he would have had the exact same evidence, except that if he’d hesitated for a second, they would be cleaning his insides off the wall right now.
Yes, let’s re-read the OP
Upon seeing a laser dot on his chest, he dives to the floor and reaches for his weapon (reading comprehension, people!) subsequent to this complete overreaction to a laser dot, he finds out it was an off duty cop was fucking around with a taser, instead of a random idiot showing off his $3 keychain laser pointer. Repeat… After he reacted to the laser dot, diving on the floor and reaching for his gun, he came to find out the laser was attached to a taser.
Thus there are two aspects to this story. One is the idiot cop playing around with a weapon while in a bar. This is bad, and the cop needs to be disciplined.
The other is a person taking a loaded gun into a bar, and being so wound up by his time in Iraq that he sees deadly threats in situations the rest of us would ignore.
Of course he was targeted with a weapon. No debate there. But, are you really saying that if you saw a red dot on your chest that you’d assume it was someone pointing a gun at you? My first reaction would be to see who was screwing around with a laser pointer and THEN when I saw the taser (assuming I knew what one looked like and didn’t mistake it for a barcode scanner) I’d hit the deck. Yeah, he was right in this case. That’s beside the point. The point is that a guy is having an unknown number of drinks in a bar and carrying a loaded weapon who is wound so tightly that he freaks out at what would normally (by a huge margin most likely) have been an idiot and his laser pointer.
I’ve read AD’s postings for quite a while now and I’ve never thought of him as Peter Griffin.
And some of us aren’t buying it. I was in the Air Force, and I don’t know any fellow airmen that had such harrowing experiences in Iraq they came back a bundle of nerves. Same goes for the soldiers and marines I know that did have some bad experiences. I’m not buying that someone that carries a firearm to drink with their friends in their local bar, is doing anything else but showboating when hitting the deck because of the presence of a laser. There’s also a good possibility he knew there were cops in the bar as the cops seemed to have known at least one of his friends.
If it makes you feel any better that would be my first thought. And I’m currently in Iraq.
I wish you all the best with that. Didn’t realise your location was actual.
Look after yourself and your mates.
Even then that’s not a good idea. Once someone has a laser weapon trained on you, any quick movements could wind you up dead. You’re simply not going to drop to the ground, retrieve your weapon and be the one to end up victorious. Sit still and be prepared to cooperate. If the one with the laser weapon trained on you wanted you dead (or tasered), you’d already be dead or having 50,000-volts going through you. Jumping in to Action Jackson mode is rarely a good idea.
Ok so pointing a weapon at someone, regardless of intent or legality, is clearly a pretty stupid thing to do. Given that the guy was an off-duty police officer adds an extra level of stupidity and he should definitely be reported.
However, you can include me in the list of people who think the OP overreacted. I’ve never been in the US military (not being from the US) but I find it pretty hard to believe that it trains its members to overreact in such a dramatic fashion to the slightest threat. If this is true then remind me never to go to a fireworks display when I’m in the US - the sight of army vets falling to the ground around me every five seconds might be far too surreal.
Certainly if anyone here behaved like that and gave their “army training” as a reason they’d be laughed out of the bar.
Could it be a case of a guy who feels the need to take a gun to a bar leaping at the chance to show off his “army reflexes” to everyone in the room? If so, I sincerely hope the OP didn’t hurt his newly-acquired erection when he hit the ground.
You’re bitching at what Doors did? Seriously, what?
A moron pointed a weapon at him and you’re bitching at him? Now, I don’t think guns and bars mix, myself, but that’s besides the point.
Someone pointed a weapon at him, and you’re complaining that he didn’t react like you think he should. I don’t think that’s where the problem is.
Airman Doors, was it in Blondie’s?
Don’t tease me, bro!
But seriously, the cop should be reported and the posters taking this incident lightly should be ashamed.
It’s not besides the point- it’s an important point. If the OP were the cop, there would be a shitload of comments directed at him and they’d be much more harsh. No one here has commented that the cop’s actions were fine. Since the OP is the one drinking in his neighborhood bar with a firearm and dropping to the ground and reaching for a weapon due to a laser light, the comments are more directed towards him.
With regard to what the cop did please point to someone taking it lightly in this thread. The people who have commented on that part have of the OP have all agreed that it was a very very stupid thing to do and the guy should be reported.
That doesn’t take away from the over-reaction of the OP. He did not know it was a weapon. He would have reacted the same way if the light came from a laser pointer(a much more likely option). The OP is also being critised for drinking while carrying a gun as well which is nothing to do with the incident but to do with the OP.
I was in Iraq too and I don’t remember ever seeing an Iraqi with a laser sight. I was in a combat unit and had several combat experiences and never, not once, even heard of an Iraqi with a laser sight. I guess Air Force guys went up against better equipped soldiers than us Infantry guys…
I can’t imagine what experience a guy could have over there that would lead him to freak out upon seeing a laser dot, I mean they just don’t exist in Iraq to my knowledge. Sure there may be one or two over there but in my experience they were not so ubiquitous as to instill a conditioned threat reflex. If I had been in a fire fight (which I was ) and saw a laser dot on my chest my first reaction would be to wonder which one of my asshole buddies was playing with a keychain laser.
I have buddies that really dislike loud noises or crowded bars and even cars coming at them fast but none of the ARMY guys I know would react with cat like combat reflexes over a laser dot in a bar. Air Force guys must have it a lot rougher.
I’m wondering what is worse a cop fucking around with his buddies or a guy with such a bad case of PTSD carrying a loaded gun while drinking in a bar…
Me too.
:rolleyes:
Right. I am rather interested in the reactions of people who choose to go out to a bar while carrying a loaded firearm. You should be too.
You also seem to have a blind spot to the fact that the OP, by his own admission, did not know that the laser dot was from a weapon. He never saw the weapon (pre-reaction), only the dot. There is no reason for a well adjusted individual to see a laser dot and think weapon instead of novelty laser pointer.
I wasn’t in Iraq. And I’ve never been in a gun fight or a fire fight, or whatever the cool way of saying it is.
But I’m not the least surprised this happened. It’s not like cops are automatically paragons of virtue just because they’re cops. Fuck man, some of the biggest pricks I’ve ever met were cops.
I once had one pull something stupid on me too. Not as grave as the OP, but it could have been.
I was living with a roommate who was a fireman. He had lots of cops friends. One day, I was sitting in my room, which was like a studio apartment to itself, and a knock came at the door and it was a cop. I knew he was there visiting my roommate, but I didn’t know him at all, so I was a little surprised as he just strode right into my room.
He said, “Is your name <my name>?” Which I should have know was a little odd as he called me by my middle name which I go by all the time and not my legal first name. Then he asked me for ID and he was giving me the hairy eyeball and all the tough cop shit.
I was petrified. I had no idea what was going on. So I asked him, nicely, “What’s this about?”
“I’ll tell you what this is about, there’s a warrant out for your arrest.”
A cold chill shot through me. I started to half-way panic. “For what? What the hell did I do?”
I’m thinking it’s some screw up with my child support payments, or some weird problem with a delinquent bill from when I lived in California, or something about 2000 questionable MP3’s I had on my computer. Or the bag of weed I had in my desk drawer. I just didn’t know what the fuck was going on. I’m literally shaking and flop sweating.
Until after another minute of cop talk he says, “Nah, I’m just fucking with you. Your roommate put me up to it.”
Ooooh. Ha ha. It is to laugh. What a funny funny joke.
This guy didn’t know me. My roommate barely knew me. What if I *was *a criminal. What if I’d already had my nine milli ganked and ready to rock (I don’t really know gang-speak)?
From my point of view it was a cruel joke. From his point of view it could have been a bullet in the head. What the fuck do these people think sometimes, is all I’m saying?
I’m more worried about a guy who was drinking in a bar (well, i assume he was drinking, all he said was “not intoxicated” :rolleyes:) and reaching for his firearm when he saw a red dot on his chest than i am about someone pointing a taser at me.
One says stupid cop, one says carries firearms out to bars and overreacts.