# Fucking Deadbeats Not Paying Child Support **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239 "2013-05-01T19:32:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/81 "2013-05-06T17:29:45Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Actually, I’m a dad too. And I was talking from the point of view of what’s best for the kids. If it was to be that me getting out of my children’s life was the best thing for them, I’d do it. Sucks that you wouldn’t. I’ve known plenty of “fathers” who would have been better for their kids if they just paid the support and pissed off. Instead, they whine about paying what they owe and continue making messes. > > As it happens, unfortunately, I should’ve read up before I posted. Looks like in most cases kids in joint custody do no worse, maybe better, than kids in sole custody. I had the impression that kids in sole custody do a lot better, probably because I’ve seen so many loser dads. Defensive, whiny, loser dads. > > In retrospect, I should not have made that post, but it was from the point of view of the welfare of children. There are an awful lot of loser moms out there, too. Anyone who works in family law will tell you that the worst divorce cases are the ones where neither parent should have custody. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/82 "2013-05-06T19:02:35Z")
> **[fathersandfamilies.org](http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2013/05/06/attorney-child-support-enforcement-quick-and-severe-visitation-enforcement-not-so-much/)** > [@](#): > > The hypocrisy becomes even more pronounced when we recall that non-custodial parents with unimpeded access to their children are far more likely to pay what they owe than are the other kind. That fact is so well known that the OCSE and many state agencies involved in child support enforcement frankly acknowledge it. Amazingly, having done so, they proceed to make little-to-no effort to enforce visitation, the very thing that would enhance their efforts at increasing child support payments. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/83 "2013-05-06T19:11:43Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![NotBob13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@NotBob13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob13)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/84 "2013-05-06T20:09:17Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > The concept of child support is misandric, and just shows how we need to fight more for men’s rights in this country. The mother of my child owes me quite a bit of child support. How is this misandric? The system does have a bias towards mother’s custody, but the best way to fight that particular misandry is to be a decent father. ---
**Author:** ![NotBob13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@NotBob13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob13)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/85 "2013-05-06T20:34:52Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Now, here are some examples of parents spending support money on themselves, that I’ve seen personally. > > I worked with one woman who took her ex, to whom she was never married, to court for back support. She did get the money, and what did she do with it? Took a trip to Cancun, and bragged about it. :mad: > > Another co-worker (different place) took her ex-boyfriend to court and got the $1,500 he owed her too. What did she do with that money? Bought a boombox stereo for her car. :rolleyes: Now, if she used that money for car repairs, or to make a down payment on a better one, I would have been OK with that. > > As for my high school friend, her mother liked to play Bingo, and this was how she financed it. :smack: It wasn’t like her dad didn’t support her, either. He bought clothes for her, paid for school activities, and even paid the deductible when she got really sick and had to be hospitalized (which he was not obligated to do), but oh, no, that didn’t count because it wasn’t The Child Support. Honestly, I don’t think these first two are good examples. This was back support. The children were supported by the female solely for some time. In effect the mother “loaned” the child support payments to herself, to cover her and the kid’s daily life, that’s why they had put off the trip to Cancun and the super annoying stereo, and then got repaid. The third sounds like a matter of either addiction, or simply moving money around. Did your friend eat well? have a warm place to sleep? Most people would cut corners to feed their bingo habit. Your friend’s mother didn’t have to, because she had the child support. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/86 "2013-05-06T22:38:09Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > [fathersandfamilies.org](http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2013/05/06/attorney-child-support-enforcement-quick-and-severe-visitation-enforcement-not-so-much/) This is a chicken-or-egg scenario. Do they pay child support because they see the kids a lot, or do they see the kids a lot AND pay because they just plain old love and care for them? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/87 "2013-05-07T00:30:56Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > You know why there’s a lot of guys who just give up, because there’s a lot of bullshit to put up with. […] > > I can see why a lot of guys would just say fuck it, I’m done, because then the stress is gone. I can’t. I don’t have kids myself, but I simply can’t see how or why any loving and caring parent would actually abandon their kids just to avoid having to deal with some “bullshit” and “stress”. I can see grousing about how “man, that ex-spouse is being uncooperative and annoying” or “the court ruling is unfair and a real pain in the ass”. But saying “Fuck it, I’m done”? Bailing out on your children because of some post-divorce hassles and annoyances, even if they are manifestly unfair and aggravating? Doesn’t sound like much of a parent to me. I thought the thing about parenting is supposed to be that you’re **always** there for your kids, **no matter what** ; not that you’ll be there for them as long as you don’t have to put up with “bullshit” and “stress”. I can’t really feel any empathy or understanding for parents who think that problems caused by other adults are an adequate reason for them to turn their back on their own kids. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/88 "2013-05-07T06:04:31Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > The concept of child support is misandric, and just shows how we need to fight more for men’s rights in this country. (Assuming you’re not just trolling) What “right”, the one to abandon your child? If you really believe that being expected to provide for your kids is “misandric”, you’re an even bigger retard than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/89 "2013-05-07T09:50:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The difference is that I, like most fathers, am a source of love, joy, guidance and support to my daughter. “Getting out of her life” is abandonment, pure and simple, and would be a terrible, evil thing to do to her. I agree. Kids have a desire to know and be loved by their biological parents even if they are in a good family with a step parent. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where being gone from thier lives is the “best” thing. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/90 "2013-05-07T10:06:37Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > It’s OK for a parent to spend support money on themselves if the children will benefit from it. Let’s address your posts, paragraph by paragraph. > > Suzie or Steven being able to live in a better place in a safer neighborhood benefits the child too, in many, many ways. > > Enabling Suzie or Steven to have reliable, safe transportation helps the whole family, in so many ways. > > Suzie or Steven having better food enables them to take better care of their children, because they will be healthier. Parents can’t take adequate care of their children if they aren’t taking care of themselves. > > It’s OK for a parent to use support money for their own medical bills. Really, it is. Like I just said, parents need to be healthy so they can take care of their kids. No, “medical care” does not mean elective cosmetic surgery like breast implants or a butt lift. > > Now, here are some examples of parents spending support money on themselves, that I’ve seen personally. > > I worked with one woman who took her ex, to whom she was never married, to court for back support. She did get the money, and what did she do with it? Took a trip to Cancun, and bragged about it. :mad: > > Another co-worker (different place) took her ex-boyfriend to court and got the $1,500 he owed her too. What did she do with that money? Bought a boombox stereo for her car. :rolleyes: Now, if she used that money for car repairs, or to make a down payment on a better one, I would have been OK with that. > > As for my high school friend, her mother liked to play Bingo, and this was how she financed it. :smack: It wasn’t like her dad didn’t support her, either. He bought clothes for her, paid for school activities, and even paid the deductible when she got really sick and had to be hospitalized (which he was not obligated to do), but oh, no, that didn’t count because it wasn’t The Child Support. Who do you suppose paid for the kids home, food, clothes, and medical, while these women you complain about took the kid’s dads to court? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/91 "2013-05-07T10:29:21Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I respectfully disagree with you. You do those things with money you earned at your job, after you’ve paid all your bills and the children have necessities. Child support is for the children. Period. You’re missing te point. While Dad is paying Nothing Mom can’t save money or go on vacation because she is paying for, ALL the expenses of the child. MAybe she has money taken out at work for medical coverage, she buys ALL the clothes, and ALL the groceries, pays ALL the rent or mortage. So she can’t save for a vacation. I know there are examples of Mom’s recieving CS who are irresponsible, but SX money goes to the household, and the person running that household gets to decide how they budget thier household. It’s certainly not as simple as CS is X dollars and that has to be spent directly on the kids. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/92 "2013-05-07T10:52:56Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And you don’t think there may be some very good reasons why the kids rejected him? Seen that many, many times. > > Another demographic I have no sympathy for are the women who get involved with these deadbeats. Think about it. I suppose the women often don’t know. Some just justify and rationalize. My daughter’s ex, who basically abandoned his daughter, sent a little guilt money occasionally and forgot birthdays and Christmas, eventually had a girlfriend with her own child and suddenly wanted to connect with his daughter. He called and his 7 year old didn’t want to talk to him, and Mom would not force her because of his history of briefly showing an interest and then ignoring her , and hurting her feelings. He got all indignant and had the nerve to tell my daughter that his new girlfriend was getting pissed that she wasn’t making her daughter talk to the biological Dad. As if my daughter gives a rat’s ass about his new girlfriend’s opinion. He quickly gave up and wouldn’t make a patient consistent effort to have a relationship with his daughter. I’m sure they justified it by telling themsleves it was my daughter’s fault. I have no patience for biological parents who think DNA affords them privileges their actions don’t merit. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/93 "2013-05-07T10:59:13Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Was there evidence that he did this to get out of paying support? Not an uncommon thing, BTW. > > Something I DO NOT UNDERSTAND is women who REFUSE child support. I can understand not asking for it - sometimes the money would cause more problems than it would solve, for a multitude of reasons - but if he wants to pay, and she turns it down? I even know of a few cases where he wasn’t obligated to pay but sent money anyway, and she tore up the checks or even returned cash. 😕 The most common explanation for this is that if he’s paying support, he’s going to want to see the kids, but I thought those were entirely separate issues. Legally I think they are. If his ex is bitter and tries to keep hjim from his kids then he needs to go to court for visitation privilieges. That means he’ll need to provide CS. She may claim he hasn’t even though he’s tried so he needs some way to show he’s made the attempt, or be willing to pay a lump sum back payment. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/94 "2013-05-07T11:04:53Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I respectfully disagree with you. You do those things with money you earned at your job, after you’ve paid all your bills and the children have necessities. Child support is for the children. Period. It was already spent on the children. _Back_ child support is child support that was _already spent_ by the receiving parent. If I buy a coat with a credit card, the credit card company pays the store right away, because stores have continuous costs that can’t necessarily wait for whenever I get around to paying off my credit card bill. When I pay my credit card bill, I don’t get to be indignant because the credit card company is now spending my coat payment on things other than coats, because it _already paid for the coat_. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/95 "2013-05-07T11:13:28Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I have a girlfriend with shared custody and a 50/50 arrangement. Because the kids live with her ex half time (Sunday to Sunday and they live in the same school district to make this easy) she gets no child support. He makes three times what she makes. Each is responsible for food and shelter the weeks they have the kids. > > But he never figures out his kids need shoes. Or school supplies. Or new jeans because they’ve grown six inches. Or someone needs to write the check for baseball. So the 50/50 support agreement is really 30/70 - because groceries aren’t the bulk of the expense with kids. Kudos to her for putting the kids first. Depending on the kids ages she might get them to ask Dad directly for things when they come up. “Dad I need shoes, can we go shopping?” "Dad, I need this much for a baseball uniform: It’s curious that she doesn’t get CS because it’s usually figured on shared income. If he makes much more then he’s responsible for more. She might look into what her legal options are if it’s a serious financial burdon. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/96 "2013-05-07T11:30:33Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Actually, I’m a dad too. And I was talking from the point of view of what’s best for the kids. If it was to be that me getting out of my children’s life was the best thing for them, I’d do it. Sucks that you wouldn’t. I’ve known plenty of “fathers” who would have been better for their kids if they just paid the support and pissed off. Instead, they whine about paying what they owe and continue making messes. > > As it happens, unfortunately, I should’ve read up before I posted. Looks like in most cases kids in joint custody do no worse, maybe better, than kids in sole custody. I had the impression that kids in sole custody do a lot better, probably because I’ve seen so many loser dads. Defensive, whiny, loser dads. > > In retrospect, I should not have made that post, but it was from the point of view of the welfare of children. Well, if the Dad is a total asshole who consistently causes more problems and emotional issues with his kids when he comes around that’s one thing, but generally kids need and want thier biological parents to be there if they are emotionally mature enough to be a good parent. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/97 "2013-05-07T14:03:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I can’t. I don’t have kids myself, but I simply can’t see how or why any loving and caring parent would actually abandon their kids just to avoid having to deal with some “bullshit” and “stress”. I underlined the two words which answer your question. Sadly, there are a lot of people there who simply do not love or care about their kids. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/98 "2013-05-07T14:45:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I can’t. I don’t have kids myself, but I simply can’t see how or why any loving and caring parent would actually abandon their kids just to avoid having to deal with some “bullshit” and “stress”. I don’t get it either, and I’m not a bleeding heart “won’t someone think of the children?!!” type of person. At a minimum, a sense of duty should prevail over anything else. You don’t even need to be particularly bonded to your children to feel guilty over their treatment. I kind of feel sorry for most absentee parents (don’t stone me!). It’s gotta eat at you at least a little bit to know your kid has been abandoned by you. With so many people walking around with guilt-ridden psyches, it’s no wonder we have so many issues today. Every time Mother’s or Father’s Day rolls around, life must suck for deadbeats. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/99 "2013-05-07T15:36:12Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I underlined the two words which answer your question. Sadly, there are a lot of people there who simply do not love or care about their kids. Or they hate the ex more than they love the kids. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239/100 "2013-05-07T16:43:34Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Your whole post was very good, but this stuck out to me as being particularly wise. You should be proud of yourself. You have a great depth of maturity, which I am certain your kids see and appreciate, and will (hopefully) emulate as they grow older. You sound like a great dad. Congratulations. Well that is very kind of you to say, but I had to drop in and give one serious caveat: I wrote my note 5 years after our divorce, this is how it is now. Just after the divorce the ex & I were at each other’s throats blowing money on lawyers and generally being total shits to each other. For my part I didn’t drag the kids into it, and I didn’t see much evidence of her doing that either, so at least we were both adults about that part. So if I have any overall advice to anyone going through a divorce and all the ugliness that surrounds it just consider that a few years down the road much of the vitriol dies down, and you can get on with life. That’s the important part to know - what seems intolerable right now will fade, eventually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-deadbeats-not-paying-child-support/657239.md?page=6)