# Fucking 'dogooders' are going to ruin the world. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961 "2007-09-04T01:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/21 "2007-09-04T04:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] Actually, Belgium surrendered on one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could. [/QUOTE] Actually, Belgium was imvaded on May 10 and surrendered on the 28th. As far as the Germans bombing Brussels into rubble the next day, to quote Wikipedia, “Beginning on May 10, 1940, Brussels was bombed by the German army; however, most of the war damage to the city took place in 1944–1945.” [QUOTE=GusNSpot] Please consider passing along copies of this article to students in high school, college and university as it contains information about the American past that is very meaningful today – history about America that very likely is completely unknown by them (and their instructors, too). By being denied the facts of our history, they are at a decided disadvantage when it comes to reasoning and thinking through the issues of today. They are prime targets for misinformation campaigns beamed at enlisting them in causes and beliefs that are special interest agenda driven. [/QUOTE] Because if there’s one thing our students desperately need, it’s Spam that, judging from that brief excerpt, commits one factual error per sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/22 "2007-09-04T04:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we have an ally, like England , in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East. [/QUOTE] An ally like _England_? Curses! The damn yanks have seen through the dastardly Scottish/Welsh plan to destroy their nation! Och, and it was so close to completion, boyos!\* Oh, and the RAF _won_ the Battle of Britain, but I see the flaws with that particular part have already been brought up. \*Sterotypes provided by the Royal Stereotyping Academy of Oxford. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/23 "2007-09-04T04:19:11Z")
He is entirely correct on that point, Belgium did, in fact, surrender “on one day”. Such dreary formal occasions seldom involve prolonged festivities. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/24 "2007-09-04T04:22:23Z")
I finally understand what the :rolleyes: is for. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/25 "2007-09-04T04:28:50Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] 1. We take over the world 2. We round up the idiots 3. We set the idiots on fire 4. We have the a nice huge bonfire 5. Smores! 6. Maximum enjoyment! [/QUOTE] I like s’mores as much as the next guy, but where do **Opal** and _Profit!_ enter into the equation? > [@](#): > > The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them. (patting my body) Nope, fat but alive. Next? > [@](#): > > Remember, perspective is everything… Yes, and the author needs more. > [@](#): > > …and America’s schools teach too little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young American mind. As an amateur historian, like Mr Kraft, I agree. Unfortunately for Mr Kraft, what comes from more knowledge of history, especially military history, is the realization of just how wrong he is on everything else. Dude should study more. He’s embarassing himself. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/26 "2007-09-04T04:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] Does she include the 3,287 other email addresses with it also? The way I got one person to quit was to send a _snarky_ and full of total silly stuff, to the tune of about 3 pages worth, to ‘Reply to all’ that I really appreciated (my relatives email address) FWDing all this stuff to me. They had a fun few days with their email. I also had one I just never opened his email again and one time he asked why I never reply anymore and I told him that I had asked him to learn how to clean up / strip the part he wanted me to see which he refused to do so I had no choice but to delete his all the time. If it is not worth the time and effort to strip and redo, it is not worth my time to see it. (Usually the same thing that has been going around for the last 3 years.) You might go at her with the idea of showing her how to do it right and how to be a good ‘internet’ person. She may not get offended that way. All the extra work will kill off most of her enthusiasm for that stuff in a week or so. Or just do not open anything that has ‘FWD’ in the subject line. If your email must be downloaded to see the subject line ( bad email client IMO ) you might splain to her that your mail is being clogged up and you can’t accept so much from her. Or just block her until she listens to reason. If a nice relative can’t splain to her without her melting down, she is in for a rough ride on the net. IMO YMMV Good luck. [/QUOTE] I think friend **Gus** should have taken his [own advice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414812) on this one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/27 "2007-09-04T04:36:45Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] (2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq. We have focused the battle. We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there we won’t have to get here. We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed. [/QUOTE] Jeez, I don’t think even **W** believes this shit any more! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/28 "2007-09-04T05:00:56Z")
There are a couple of good core points there, but the history is so shoddy and inaccurate that they’re not obvious but must be separated like wheat from chaff. Oh and Diogenes? There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, and I think that classifying only one one hundredth of a percent of them as fanatical is way, way, wayyyy low. 1% of any group of any size is batshit crazy, when you’re talking about religion (any religion) I’d venture that 5-10% is much more realistic. In any event, there are a not insignificant number of fanatical Muslims who DO fit the profile painted by the glurge in the OP, something which should not be poo-pooed away because it inconveniently disagrees with your ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/29 "2007-09-04T05:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > (2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq. We have focused the battle. We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there we won’t have to get here. We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Now, this would be easier or at least more satisfying if I could grab you by the collar and shake you up untill making you understand that there´s zero possibility of having a vicious war and stablishing a happyla-la-land on the same space/time coordintes. Geez!, what´s up with people that peddle that crap of an argument? Do you actually _think_ at all? Man, I´m pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/30 "2007-09-04T05:46:25Z")
The original piece is about three years old. It described pre-Pearl Harbor America and refers to that period as “sixty-three years ago.” At some point someone updated the number of troops who have been killed, but it is over 3700 now, not 3,000. We passed the 9-11 total long ago. And that doesn’t include the unspeakable number of other troops and Iraqi citizens and other human beings slaughtered. As I read the first paragraph about the sacrifices that were made on the homefront during World War II, I couldn’t help but wonder why _this_ President hadn’t taken advantage of the spirit of unity that this country felt after 9-11. It would have been very understandable if he had called upon us to conserve gasoline and oil in every way possible. We on the homefront were _wanting_ to do something. The moment passed. The “voice” of the author changes considerable during the piece. At the beginning he sounds a little like Walter Cronkite or Lowell Thomas. But that begins to break down and eventually a trembling Barney Phife shows up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/31 "2007-09-04T05:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] There are a couple of good core points there [/quote] No there aren’t. The Nazis were a real threat to the US, radical Islam is not. > [@](#): > > Oh and Diogenes? There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, and I think that classifying only one one hundredth of a percent of them as fanatical is way, way, wayyyy low. 1% of any group of any size is batshit crazy, when you’re talking about religion (any religion) I’d venture that 5-10% is much more realistic. In any event, there are a not insignificant number of fanatical Muslims who DO fit the profile painted by the glurge in the OP, something which should not be poo-pooed away because it inconveniently disagrees with your ideology. I actually said a thousandth of one percent, not a hundred. There are only a few thousand Muslims who could catually be classified as violent terrorists. There may be a lot more fundy, fanatical assholes than that but most of them are not terrorists. There is a lot of space in between just being an intolerant asshole and being an intolerant asshole with a bomb strapped to your back. Not everybody that bashes the queers or pickets an abortion clinic is going to go on a bombing spree like eric Rudolph. The percentage of Muslims who are irrationally and suicidally violent is not significant enough to warrant anything close to the Chicken Little rhetoric quoted by the OP. ETA, what “ideology” do you imagine I’m defending? ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/32 "2007-09-04T06:19:55Z")
I couldn’t even get into the meat of this “article”. I gave up about 4 paragraphs in Completely apart from the numerous factual errors in those paragraphs, the person who wrote this has the temerity to call himself a writer? > [@](#): > > “Raymond S . Kraft is a writer living in Northern California” This tripe is, At Best, high school level writing. The sentence construction, word usage, grammar, etc, etc, is dreadful. If this is an example of his work how the hell does he make a living from writing? ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/33 "2007-09-04T06:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] Can this have even a glimmer of reality? Any truth hiding in this? A sliver of what is to come? Is it that important? This fuckin shite scares me… Total bunk, … right??? [/QUOTE] Where do you start. Its appalling gibberish, riddled with so many historical inaccuracies I almost want to weep. The most intelligent comment was at the start “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” The author obviously failed to learn his history and certainly should be made to repeat the subject! WW2 did not start in 1928. It did not last 17 years. The Russians did not lose 24 million people at Moscow and Stalingrad alone. Belgium did not surrender in a day. Brussels was not bombed into rubble. Britain did not narrowly escape invasion. “Europe” did not spend 50 years fighting Napoleon. Peace activists are not killed in Spain (sheesh!) The rest is a hysterical rant. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/34 "2007-09-04T06:45:05Z")
No, what we call “WWI” began before 1914 and extended past today. Among others, Kraft assumes it ended. We have enough to straighten out in what is assumed to be “Europe”–and I consider the Americas an extension of Europe–to give two shits about what is happening in Mesopotamia. It wasn’t our fight and we shouldn’t have involved ourselves in it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/35 "2007-09-04T06:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] No, what we call “WWI” began before 1914 and extended past today. Among others, Kraft assumes it ended. We have enough to straighten out in what is assumed to be “Europe”–and I consider the Americas an extension of Europe–to give two shits about what is happening in Mesopotamia. It wasn’t our fight and we shouldn’t have involved ourselves in it. [/QUOTE] Come to think of it, the existence of Iraq as a multinational, multiconfessional state is a direct result of WWI. One more mess that still hasn’t been straightened out (and won’t be in my lifetime or yours). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/36 "2007-09-04T07:52:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Come to think of it, the existence of Iraq as a multinational, multiconfessional state is a direct result of WWI. One more mess that still hasn’t been straightened out (and won’t be in my lifetime or yours). [/QUOTE] No, it’s not likely it will. (edited to add) We forget how recent WWI was. I’ve known participants and, for them, it was extremely recent history. Their children view it as just happening, especially if it affected their birthrights. It is completely here-and-now for many people. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/37 "2007-09-04T10:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=fessie] Care to expand on that? I don’t understand what you mean (although Google did find a thesis from Harvard that might be fun to read). [/QUOTE] I think you’re referring to [Michael Trotter’s Daily Report](http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:tuoxaNSh600J:www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/corporate_governance/MediaMentions/02-13-07_DailyReport.pdf+tax+rate+world+war+two&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us) > [@](#): > > During the war years, the top marginal rate ranged from 88 percent to 94 percent on taxable income in excess of $200,000 (the equivalent of $2,241,000 in 2006). The TMR declined to a range of 87 percent to 84 percent in the years after World War II, but returned to the 91 percent level for the Korean War and remained at that level through 1963. I take our failure to actually pay for the war as an indication of how seriously we take its consequences. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/38 "2007-09-04T13:16:46Z")
[QUOTE=GusNSpot] Why don’t we see Peace Activist demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Spain, North Korea, in the places that really need peace activism the most? [/QUOTE] Wait, what? SPAIN? Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead. Spain is a first-world liberal democratic constitutional monarchy which is a member of the European Union – and as it happens, some of the largest peace protests in history took place there, with upwards of a million people protesting in Barcelona against the Iraq war in 2003. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/39 "2007-09-04T13:39:55Z")
y’all jumping on **Gus** as tho he believes the quoted text - did you miss his last sentance? [QUOTE=GusNSpot] … Total bunk, … right??? [/QUOTE] Seems to me he just wants confirmation that it is, indeed, hogwash (which you all have done, thank you) but he does not subscribe to it, nor is he advocating it be passed along. Unfortunately, when **Giraffe** recoded the OP, it became unclear what was quoted and what was **Gus** ’ own statement. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961/40 "2007-09-04T16:19:03Z")
Not to mention including Ireland as one of our allies in WWII. Dude, Ireland was neutral during WWII. They were sympathetic to the Allied side, but Ireland as a country stayed out of the war. Of course, plenty of Irish citizens fought for the allies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-dogooders-are-going-to-ruin-the-world/417961.md?page=3)