# Fucking employers, fucking health insurance, fuck all of it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145 "2018-12-15T00:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/21 "2018-12-15T14:11:33Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Holy fucking shit. The entire ACA could fall. 20 million people could lose insurance, and millions more could lose consumer protections. Yep. That’s what we get for being a bunch of shit-for-brains and voting against our own interest. My health care is practically the best in America. But when I vote blue and try to warn people they are getting screwed, people tell me I’m a socialist liberal cucktard. And I’m like, “Umm… Okay… But my kids get free medicine and yours don’t. Have fun with that.” ---
**Author:** ![jonathanrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@jonathanrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonathanrace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/22 "2018-12-15T16:08:40Z")
Man, I’m glad i’m in the UK ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/23 "2018-12-15T16:22:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also fuck me for sucking at life that I can’t get shit straightened out despite being middle aged. Most people at my age are established… No they aren’t, most are faking it, it’s not sucking at life, and _you are not a failure._ This shit’s _hard_, all of it, Just because it’s easier for some people (and not nearly as many as you think!) doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/24 "2018-12-15T17:07:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also fuck me for sucking at life that I can’t get shit straightened out despite being middle aged. Most people at my age are established. many, many of us are barely hanging on by our fingernails. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/25 "2018-12-15T17:23:33Z")
I’m middle aged and my life is not together either. I don’t have any skills anyone wants and have been struggling the last 15 years to get more skills without success. My job right now is okay but it will probably come to an end in a couple of years. So you’re definitely not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/26 "2018-12-15T18:15:19Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The earliest reference I’ve personally seen to a proposal for universal health care was a statement made by FDR in 1932. Unfortunately, I don’t see that issue being resolved 85 years from now either. :mad: > > Other people have told me about references they’ve seen that predate the 20th century. [Teddy Roosevelt](https://teddyrooseveltlive.com/2014/09/10/teddy-roosevelt-and-healthcare/) in 1912, during his third run, but he was defeated. Universal healthcare itself does go all the way back to the 19th century – it was the brain child of that raging commie, Otto Von Bismarck. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/27 "2018-12-15T18:45:24Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > I’m middle aged and my life is not together either. I don’t have any skills anyone wants and have been struggling the last 15 years to get more skills without success. My job right now is okay but it will probably come to an end in a couple of years. So you’re definitely not the only one. > [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > many, many of us are barely hanging on by our fingernails. > [@andros](#): > > No they aren’t, most are faking it, it’s not sucking at life, and _you are not a failure._ > > This shit’s _hard_, all of it, Just because it’s easier for some people (and not nearly as many as you think!) doesn’t change that. Thank you, this makes me feel better to not feel like I’m on the outside looking in. I feel like I’m behind for my age. My financial life isn’t terrible, but everything I’ve worked for can be wiped out with one health issue. That is hard to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/28 "2018-12-15T19:12:10Z")
In addition to what Elbows said, the easiest way to move to a foreign country is to have a job there. Now, you can do that by having some in-demand skill and being sponsored, but it should be possible to work for some multinational company and get a transfer. That should be open to even lower positions. I don’t think it’ll work for franchises, but among hotel chains, airlines, fast-food companies, coffee shop chains etc, there has to be a few that have a structure that will allow you to transfer between branches. How many hotel chains would like a receptionist who actually knows how their booking software works for example? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/29 "2018-12-15T22:21:36Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Anyway, fuck all of it. The UK is most welcoming to skilled immigrants. And post-Brexit, not-Europeans will be on an even footing with Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/30 "2018-12-15T23:17:17Z")
> [@jonathanrace](#): > > Man, I’m glad i’m in the UK \ But you are miserable with your socialized medicine. You just don’t realize it! \ ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/31 "2018-12-16T00:18:36Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > In addition to what Elbows said, the easiest way to move to a foreign country is to have a job there. Now, you can do that by having some in-demand skill and being sponsored, but it should be possible to work for some multinational company and get a transfer. That should be open to even lower positions. I don’t think it’ll work for franchises, but among hotel chains, airlines, fast-food companies, coffee shop chains etc, there has to be a few that have a structure that will allow you to transfer between branches. To the best of my understanding, the rules for an immigrant work visa are roughly similar in the US and Canada, and generally require proof that a citizen of that country with equivalent qualifications isn’t available before the visa will be granted. This applies with corporate transfers as much as with new jobs, only with corporate transfers it’s generally an easier case to make, especially at high levels where transferring a senior executive or senior research scientist – or doing an outright new hire – is typically a non-issue. But it’s still a case that has to be made, and at lower levels it can be non-trivial. I think you’re oversimplifying the potential difficulties in both countries. > [@Voyager](#): > > \ But you are miserable with your socialized medicine. You just don’t realize it! \ Here in Canada my socialist misery knows no bounds. I took early retirement at age 60, facilitated in part by having no worries about health care costs. I can’t even begin to tell you how miserable this has made me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/32 "2018-12-16T02:15:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > To the best of my understanding, the rules for an immigrant work visa are roughly similar in the US and Canada, and generally require proof that a citizen of that country with equivalent qualifications isn’t available before the visa will be granted. This applies with corporate transfers as much as with new jobs, only with corporate transfers it’s generally an easier case to make, especially at high levels where transferring a senior executive or senior research scientist – or doing an outright new hire – is typically a non-issue. But it’s still a case that has to be made, and at lower levels it can be non-trivial. I think you’re oversimplifying the potential difficulties in both countries. I don’t think we ask that here in Norway. Mind, I could be wrong, but its not been my general impression. There are a lot of countries out there, especially if you don’t mind picking up a new language. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/33 "2018-12-16T02:15:52Z")
Healthcare in America is fucked and you have been cursed. Sometime, somewhere in your past somebody said to you “may you live in interesting times” and cursed you. The world, including America, is in a state of flux. This second revolution is just as disruptive, if not more so, than the industrial revolution that occurred around the beginning of the last century. At the beginning of that last revolution \>90% of people were employed in fields related to agriculture and the majority of people in America lived on their own land in rural areas. 40-50 years later only 5% of the population worked in fields in the service of agriculture, the majority of people lived in cities and social security was a policy of governments around the world. As industrialization commenced, women entered the workforce and again governments around the world reacted by creating subsidized health care and medicare/medicaid like programs. In the past, when you got old you could go back to the family farm and get taken care of by your daughter or daughter-in-law, but with the need of 2 income families and people living in apartments in big cities, governments needed to step in to take care of old people. This happened around the world, not just in the united states. Now we are in a new revolution and beats the hell out of me how it is going to play out. Automation and globalization are decimating the labor market that middle class in America used to rely on. Large corporations are now as rich and powerful as many governments and have as much sway as most. Currently in the US, entrepreneurship is lower than 50% of what it was in 1980 adjusted for population. While unemployment is low, the percentage of men in their prime years (25-54) that is unemployed has doubled since 1980. Wages are stagnant. The share of new wealth that is going to capital (as opposed to labor) has been increasing at an ever alarming rate. It goes on and on. It can’t last. It is not sustainable. Sometime in the next decade or two their will be a political revolution to match the economic/technological revolution we are going through. Most likely the government will come up with a policy like social security (1930’s in response to the death of the family farm and the industrial revolution) or medicare/medicaid (1960’s in response to increasing urbanization and women joining the workforce) or there will be a real revolution with many, many people dying. Maybe we will have basic income. Maybe corporations will step up and we will end up with corporate owned states. Who knows. But I agree, fuck employers, fuck insurance and fuck healthcare. Fuck them all. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/34 "2018-12-16T02:30:24Z")
That’s the difference between an ‘immigrant work visa’ and a ‘tourist work visa’. If you just want to come and work for a year, at whatever you can find, to pay for your year here, it’s a much easy criteria. It’s intended for young people but I think anyone can apply. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/35 "2018-12-16T04:36:02Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > In addition to what Elbows said, the easiest way to move to a foreign country is to have a job there. Now, you can do that by having some in-demand skill and being sponsored, but it should be possible to work for some multinational company and get a transfer. That should be open to even lower positions. I don’t think it’ll work for franchises, but among hotel chains, airlines, fast-food companies, coffee shop chains etc, there has to be a few that have a structure that will allow you to transfer between branches. > > How many hotel chains would like a receptionist who actually knows how their booking software works for example? Honestly, the easiest way to get into just about any country is to marry a citizen of said country. Definitely the easiest way to get to the US legally and I imagine Canada as well. But more on the original topic, yes we American’s are generally fucked when it comes to health care. The current system is so just…ingrained in our society and economy that to try and change it would require so much effort and money and work that it’s realistically never going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/36 "2018-12-17T02:38:59Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > Honestly, the easiest way to get into just about any country is to marry a citizen of said country. Definitely the easiest way to get to the US legally and I imagine Canada as well. > > But more on the original topic, yes we American’s are generally fucked when it comes to health care. The current system is so just…ingrained in our society and economy that to try and change it would require so much effort and money and work that it’s realistically never going to happen. I’m hoping some state of the union passes single payer in the next 5-20 years. Then I can move there when I’m older. But I doubt any state does it anytime soon. Then again, marijuana legalization seemed impossible until it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/37 "2018-12-17T02:54:21Z")
The OP is incorrect. Obamacare fixed all health insurance problems. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/38 "2018-12-17T04:10:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So I’m a temp worker right now, and I earn just enough to get almost no subsidy for insurance. > > Last day of enrollment in my temp agencies health insurance is today, and I think today my boss noticed that I was coded wrong and changed me from part time to full time. Which I think makes me eligible for the health insurance through my employer. Luckily he changed my code after business hours on the last day of health care enrollment. Thats nice. > > But I think its junk insurance and very high priced and no subsidy, but I can’t find any info on the webpage. If it is shitty, expensive insurance, maybe it doesn’t matter. But it looks like you have a change in status (part to full-time) - that may reopen the enrollment window for you. Of course that is entirely dependent on your plan (I think - it might be a federal rule in which case yay!). Possibly worth checking out. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/39 "2018-12-17T05:00:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The OP is incorrect. Obamacare fixed all health insurance problems. Obamacare turned the American health care system from a D+ into a C. Better, but still deeply flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145/40 "2018-12-17T11:58:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The OP is incorrect. Obamacare fixed all health insurance problems. Obamacare was a worthless pile of shit, because it was cribbed from a worthless Republican health care plan from the '90s. Even so, it was a far better system than the flaming bag of shit we had before, and would be better still if half the politicians in our government weren’t hell bent on ensuring it failed. Legislation that vast requires care and feeding to ensure it works, fixing the things that don’t work after seeing it operate. The ACA was starved from the get-go. The fact that it has lasted as long as it has is proof of how much better it is than what came before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-employers-fucking-health-insurance-fuck-all-of-it/826145.md?page=3)