# Fucking hypocritical europeans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2002, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534 "2002-04-25T13:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/21 "2002-04-25T17:42:55Z")
I don’t have a car, and despite what the right wing nationalists would want for Britain, I believe we are part of Europe, even if it’s only by dint of proximity. There is one poster in this thread who can vouch for my carlessness, but I have a bike, are bikes green ? In common with all Europeans, I like sports that absolutely all Americans cannot understand, and I hate MacDonalds but still go there to eat, I hate bad service but I’m too timid to complain and admire American levels of customer service but dislike the demanding American consumer who demands that things should be right. Oh yes, our history is older than yours… You should be grateful for our civilising cultural influence… We don’t have to buy our culture, we sell it to you and you fill up your billionaires museums and galleries with it. Our films are usually crap but done so tastefully, pity no-one watches then, whereas yours are loud brash, trashy and mkae zillions. Your games shows are crappier than our crappy game shows, usually. You politicians are rotten, our politicans are… rotten. Have I left anything out, come on folks post your offensive stereotypes here. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/22 "2002-04-25T18:40:18Z")
> [@](#): > > whose government fucked Kyoto last year…? To the everlasting relief of the collective heads of government in Europe, not one of whom had taken the first step toward seriously implementing those protocols, themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/23 "2002-04-25T19:00:41Z")
Don’t have a car-hell, I don’t even have a driver’s license! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/24 "2002-04-25T20:01:37Z")
I’ll chime in here and admit that I do also object to the objections to the many cars, much solo-driving, and cheap gas here in the U.S. A _lot_ of American cities had wonderful transit systems 80 years ago; and not only that, but there were longer haul inter-urban rail systems that were sort of like heavier duty streetcars, and would travel between one hamlet and the next at speeds in excess of 60 miles an hour. In fact, when this system was at its height, you could almost have made it from New York City to Ohio just on these interurban trains (not to be confused with the more conventional intercity train service which also existed). But we didn’t tear up the rails in all but a handful of cities and regions. Our fucking grandparents’ generation did that, and we’re living with the consequences today. Most of us drive because there’s no reasonable alternative available. Definitely, if I lived in New York City, Chicago, or London, I’d give up my car in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/25 "2002-04-25T20:48:04Z")
I can’t be bothered getting involved with one of those tedious US vs Europe arguments, but the OP is on to a total loser here. Can we examine a few facts? FACT: **25%** of the world’s carbon dioxide production is by the US. FACT: American consumption of energy per capita is **twice** that of the average European country. So, really, griping about car speeds as evidence of relative ‘greeness’ is a total irrelevancy of an almost luducrous degree. And [concerning SUVs](http://www.suv.org/introductory.html) They suck, basically. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/26 "2002-04-25T21:06:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > **FACT: 25% of the world’s carbon dioxide production is by the US.** However, the US also uses up a lot of carbon dioxide: > [@](#): > > Earlier studies have suggested that there is a carbon-absorbing zone, known to geoscientists as a carbon “sink,” in the northern part of the western hemisphere. The results in the Science paper confirm that this sink soaked up high amounts of carbon dioxide between 1988 and 1992 and indicate that the North American continent plays a much larger role than what would be proportional to its size. > \ > There are a number of possible mechanisms that could be responsible for the sink. Forest regrowth in areas where generations of pioneers leveled trees to create farmland almost certainly plays an important role. Millions of acres east of the Mississippi have returned to forest. [http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/98/1026/carbon.htm](http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/98/1026/carbon.htm) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/27 "2002-04-25T22:00:13Z")
I know in the pit the facts are quite irrelevant and so it is OK to rant against Italians for wearing kilts and against the Swedes for having bullfights and against the French for not disliking Americans enough but lets get real for a moment… this has to be one of the silliest rants to come down the pike in quite a while. The Germans speed? So what? They buy their gas and are free to use it as they please. If the prefer to go faster for a shorter distance than farther and slower, who are others to say that is wrong? The last thing the Germans want or need is Americans telling them how to drive. Furthermore, when Germans (and the rest of the world with them) say Americans use more than their share of oil, that is a fact. Americans use on average 2.6 times as much oil as Europeans, 4.2 times as much as Mexicans and 20.9 times more than the average Chinese. ```auto Million barrels Year 2001 Barrels Pop. - /year / Day Millions /capita United States 19.76 248.77 28.99 Canada 2.03 31.60 23.45 1.2 OECD Europe 15.22 498.67 11.14 2.6 Mexico 1.94 101.90 6.95 4.2 China 4.85 1273.11 1.39 20.9 Sources: www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t24.txt CIA factbook and other Internet sources. ``` Let’s not lose sight of reality, even in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/28 "2002-04-25T22:08:40Z")
“Fucking hypocritical Europeans” is _exactly_ what I **refuse** to do! I will **not** have sex with Emmanuelle Béart, Juliette Binoche, _or even Franka Potente_ unless they give up their limousines and switch to gas/electric hybrids! I’m sorry, Franka! This isn’t any easier for me than it is for you, but until you show me that you’re really committed to a sustainable and non-polluting transportation paradigm, you ain’t getting **any.** Not even a foot massage. It’s for The Planet. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/29 "2002-04-25T22:54:37Z")
OTOH I’d give up a year’s consumption of gasoline to do Claudia Schiffer. That’s my contribution to saving the planet. ---
**Author:** ![CLedet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CLedet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLedet)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/30 "2002-04-26T01:55:53Z")
So American’s use a lot of oil. So what. If by some miracle America cut its oil consumption to match European levels, the economies of most of the middle east would collapse. Think we have problems now in the Persian Gulf? Just imagine if Saddam (sp?) rolled over Kuwait again and America didn’t care because we don’t need the oil anymore. Do you think that madman would stop? Fuck no. Before long that bastard would own the Persian Gulf. Futile Gesture thinks SUV’s suck. Well my wife and son were involved in a serious auto accident today. She drives a Chevrolet Suburban 4X4. I am thanking the Good Lord for that SUV right now. My family doesn’t have a scratch. Belly ache all you want, SUV’s are safe. Thats what matters to me - SAFETY. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/31 "2002-04-26T02:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > I drive a 1400 CC 4 cylinder Peugeot. When I drive it at a constant 120 km/h, I get about 12.5 kilometers per liter of fuel, or 29 miles to the American gallon. A couple of weeks ago, I took the same car on a ski trip. It had three people and all their luggage on board, a huge ski case on the roof, and I gunned it down the French highways at 160 km/h…Driving it faster means more fuel consumption, but as you can see, the difference isn’t earth-shattering. 160 km/hr translates to 100 mph, and I have never seen anyone drive that fast on a highway. At that speed, I’d be worried about my transaxel heating up, particularly if my CV joints are split, rather than worrying about fuel consumption 😉 Now for my impression of European hypocricy gained from my European relatives is while they oppose GM foods which are now staple to the North American diet, they as a whole still smoke like there is no health problem and ride bicycles without helmets. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/32 "2002-04-26T07:45:26Z")
Hey, lay off the CV joints, dammit. 🙂 Well, 160 km/h is an acceptable (albeit somewhat illegal) speed on the French toll ways. You’ll have to take my word for it: it is quite safe. Anyway, I used that example mainly to demonstrate the relative inelasticity of fuel consumption of a small, 4 cylinder engine. Smoking is a personal risk with consequences for society. When I ride a bicycle, whether I wear a helmet or not is nobody’s fucking business but my own (hint: I don’t. It’s cultural, nobody wears a bicycle helmet in this country, except maybe small kids and downhill mountainbikers.). **CLedet** , you raise a somewhat valid point. However, a change like that won’t ever happen overnight, so I doubt we’d be looking at angry Middle East nations taking over the entire area. While America might be trying to reduce oil consumption, the Chinese economy is in the same phase a lot of European economies were in 75 to 100 years ago. Trust me: the Middle East will find buyers for their oil. I’m glad you and your family were uninjured in the accident. And while I’m sure that in this case the size of your vehicle helped, it’s also important to know that an SUV has poor stability when it comes to sudden manoeuvers. Keep that in mind the next time you swerve to avoid that puppy crossing the road… ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/33 "2002-04-26T09:34:47Z")
\>\> So American’s use a lot of oil. So what? So the OP is completely wrong when he says Europeans don’t save gas compared to Americans? Did you read the OP? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/34 "2002-04-26T09:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > “Clueless europeans bitching about America’s role in world politics.” Bring it on. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/35 "2002-04-26T13:54:09Z")
Okay, I have to bitch about _a_ paritcular hypocritical European, too. I could bitch about all _hypocritical_ Europeans, without implying that _all_ Europeans are hypocritical (notice the difference in emphasis?) but I have the feeling that that would go over a few people’s heads, so let’s just leave it at _one_ hypocritical European of my aquaintance. Blah blah blah, bloody Americans and your bloody SUVs, blah blah blah Kyoto protocol, blah blah blah blah . . . . This is what I listen to constantly. Not a week goes by without some kind of snide-ass, overgeneralized comment on Americans, comma, vile polluting ways thereof. There’s always a tacit “present company excluded, of course” in there, but it still pisses me off. Especially since this guy never turns of his computer monitor. You know how you can set up your screen saver so that if you don’t do anything with the keyboard or the mouse for X minutes, your monitor turns off? Know how you can do that _once_ and never ever have to think of it again? I mentioned that to him. He said it was on. I said that he might want to check that, because I have _never once_ come into the office and found his monitor off. Did he ever recall an occassion where he’d found that his monitor had turned off? Er, uh, well . . . Well, he apparently hasn’t fixed the problem. But even if there is some sort of pathological problem preventing the proper functiong of his energy-saving feature, d’ya know how there’s that button right there on the front of your monitor that you can punch when you’re going to be away from your computer, and the monitor turns off? And then you can hit the button again when you come back, and it comes back on? For some reason, this guy is incapable of availing himself of either of these options. _Every_ cotton-picking time I walk into the office and he’s not here, his freakin’ monitor is on, wasting electricity to display one stupid screensaver or another to an empty chair. He’s out of town _for a week_. If he doesn’t want to turn is computer off, that’s fine; he probably plans to log onto it remotely. But I came in Monday morning and found . . . you guessed it . . . the monitor was on, happily grinding away at a screensaver. Which it would have done for _nine days_ while he was out of town. Burning fossil fuels, polluting the atmosphere, increasing global levels of CO[sub]2[/sub], not because he has chosen an unwise mode of transportation for himself and his family, not because dipshit politicians didn’t ratify the Kyoto treaty, but because _he cannot reach out his very own personal finger and press a button that’s 2 freaking inches from the keyboard._ I’m not saying that him turning off his monitor will single-handedly save the planet. It’s just the principle of the thing. I turned off his fucking monitor. I’d have turned on his power-saver, too, but he locks his screen. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/36 "2002-04-26T13:57:17Z")
An understandable and commendable rant **Podkayne**. Now tell us again how his continent of origin is relevant. pan ---
**Author:** ![CLedet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CLedet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLedet)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/37 "2002-04-26T14:07:02Z")
sailor, I read the OP. Like most arguments about and close to this topic it seems to degrade into “but Americans are such hogs and they use up more than their fair share”. Your the one who said " … Americans use more than their share of oil, that is a fact." And again I say “so what.” The Germans speed and the Americans use a lot of oil. Coldfire, points taken. I’m sure your closer to the mark about the middle east than I am. I just think that if the tech is developed to reduce oil consumption in the U.S that it would do the same for the entire world. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/38 "2002-04-26T14:12:25Z")
The point, **CL** , is that the OP’s rant is built on the fact that it is **hypocritical** for Euros to speed **because it uses more oil**. This makes very relevant **sailor’s** statistic that _despite_ possible speeding, Americans _still_ use twice as much oil per capita as Europeans. It somewhat softens the accusation of hypocracy. pan ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/39 "2002-04-26T14:17:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I just think that if the tech is developed to reduce oil consumption in the U.S that it would do the same for the entire world. Yeah, probably. In which case the Europeans would still be ahead of the Americans 😉 The technology to save fuel on a grand scale **is** available, **CLedet**. It’s known to the public as _a hatchback_, or _a medium sized sedan_. Of course, if the price of fuel makes the MPG a car gets almost irrelevant, who’s gonna buy them? From the evidence, certainly not the majority of the public. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534/40 "2002-04-26T15:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*Yes, and whose government fucked Kyoto last year, **Mort Furd**? \*\* There are so many. Canada’s government is fucking it right now. None of Europe’s governments have passed it. Wanna make a list? It’ll be pretty long. You HEAR about the U.S. government getting all Kyoto-shy, but how many nations have _actually_ implemented it? Are there any? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-hypocritical-europeans/105534.md?page=3)