# Fucking Santorum's latest bit of slime... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891 "2006-08-01T15:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/81 "2006-08-02T14:33:41Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I do think it’s racist to focus one’s immigration stance on one and only one nationality of illegal immigrants. Why doesn’t he want to crack down on the Asian illegals with as much artillery and manpower?.. > And just to stave off the inevitable hijack, I refuse to get into a debate about illegal immigration in this thread, so don’t bother hunting down statistics or cites about the various rates of illegal immigration among various nationalities, their impact on society, etc. Sorry. We don’t hold with the use of invincible ignorance (simply refusing up front to listen to the other side’s evidence) around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/82 "2006-08-02T14:37:59Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No, idiot, I said I wouldn’t discuss **illegal immigration**. Discuss Santorum’s racism all you want – _I said that_. Learn to read. Nice try. **You** raised the issue of illegal immigration by citing Santorum’s illegal-immigration talking points as your only evidence for the “racist” claim. Thus, you’re stuck with it unless you either drop the claim or find another line of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/83 "2006-08-02T14:38:09Z")
Republicans have had a “fund Democratic primary and Green Party candidates we want to hurt the Dems” for a while now. Al Sharpton came in for a lot of big bucks from people 180 degrees opposed to his platform in 2004 as I recall. Nader got a lot of help trying to get on the ballots in 2004 as well by people who gave to both him and then maxed out to Bush. Will Casey caucus with the Dems? If so, then I’d vote for him. End of story. The Dem party won’t let him do anything nutty anyway. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/84 "2006-08-03T00:55:01Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Hurricane Katrina revealed a lot of folks that don’t have it so damned good. American Indians don’t have it so damned good. Something tells me there might be more besides these. It took one the biggest Goddamned hurricanes ever to get you to realize some people are struggling in life?!? How observant. :rolleyes: We all know there are people struggling. That’s why many of us do what we can in our own small ways to help out. Be it volunteering or donating cash/items. If you can’t find any hope in life until everyone is saved, that would explain your seeming lack of pleasure in life. There will always be people that are suffering in some way. I take, unselfishly, comfort in knowing that I and the ones I love are still doing allright. Even friends that have recently lost their jobs aren’t destitute. I’d love to have a world where nobody is roughing it out. Not gonna happen. So I do what I can to help, and enjoy what is good in the lives of my loved ones. If you feel some need to beat yourself up with the guilt stick over current or even past issues, that’s your right. It’s also my right to state that overall, we have it pretty damn good. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/85 "2006-08-03T02:38:41Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Not sure, just wanted to use “pwned” before I die. Trying to keep up with the kids. 🙂 Don’t even try. As soon as we figure out what’s cool (or l33tn355) today, the bastards change the cool words all over again. Dat’s da real shiznit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/86 "2006-08-06T01:25:51Z")
[The Democrats may challenge the Green Party’s signatures.](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06215/710716-178.stm) Apparently, the Greens also got money from pro-Republicans. Amazingly, their Senate candidate has no problems with that. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/87 "2006-08-06T03:59:56Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > [The Democrats may challenge the Green Party’s signatures.](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06215/710716-178.stm) > > Apparently, the Greens also got money from pro-Republicans. Amazingly, their Senate candidate has no problems with that. > > Robin More to the point, **MsRobyn** , they _only_ got [money from conservatives](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001256.php). > [@](#): > > OK, we’ve done it. We’ve nailed it down: Every single contributor to the Pennsylvania Green Party Senate candidate is actually a conservative – except for the candidate himself. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/88 "2006-08-06T14:25:45Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Apparently, the Greens also got money from pro-Republicans. Amazingly, their Senate candidate has no problems with that. Why is that so amazing? He’s on the ballot now, with enough money to actually campaign effectively, and while I’m sure he knows that the Republicans just gave him the money to hurt the Democrats, that’s not his concern…the Green party tends to think that the Republicans and the Democrats are just two sides of the same coin, anyway, both equally as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/89 "2006-08-06T14:31:52Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Can you quote the section(s) where he’s being racist? More of a bigot really. _Defend American culture_ when the most populous illegal immigration population shares all their cultural traits, including language, with US citizens from the Southwestern US that aren’t from illegal immigrant stock. There is the _English Only_ bit which strives to discourage government participation and eliminate equal protection of those not fluent in English language. And their is the _lie_ about illegals recieving _SS benefits_. Since so many, especially the movers and shakers, in the anti-illegal immigration are ignorant, stupid, bigoted, or some combination of all three, I can see how this BS is gobbled up as Gospel by them. It doesn’t have to be this way, as there are honest, non bigoted arguments against illegal immigration. But apparently they don’t rabble raise as well as those arguments are seldom used. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/90 "2006-08-07T11:18:15Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Why is that so amazing? He’s on the ballot now, with enough money to actually campaign effectively, and while I’m sure he knows that the Republicans just gave him the money to hurt the Democrats, that’s not his concern…the Green party tends to think that the Republicans and the Democrats are just two sides of the same coin, anyway, both equally as bad. I didn’t mean “amazing” in the sense of “OH NOES!!!11!!!” I meant “amazing” in an ironic sense. I don’t care what the Greens’ thinking is, the fact that they’re okay with money no matter where it comes from kind of gives me disincentive from voting for them. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/91 "2006-08-07T12:00:30Z")
Sorry to come in and post some facts in a thread, but claiming that advocating an official language is a sign of racism is not borne up by the realities of peer nations to the US, and possibly insulting to those truly subject to the evil of racism. If wanting or having an official language is racist, then the world is filled with racist countries. France: [French language - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language) > [@](#): > > Per the Constitution of France, French has been the official language since 1992 [1]. France mandates the use of French in official government publications, public education outside of specific cases (though these dispositions are often ignored) and legal contracts; advertisements must bear a translation of foreign words. Spain: [Spanish language - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language) > [@](#): > > In this manner, the Spanish Constitution of 1978 uses the term castellano to define the official language of the whole State, opposed to las demás lenguas españolas (lit. the other Spanish languages). Article III reads as follows: > > ``` > El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado. (…) Las demás lenguas españolas serán también oficiales en las respectivas Comunidades Autónomas… > Castilian is the official Spanish language of the State. (…) The other Spanish languages shall also be official in the respective Autonomous Communities… > > ``` Italy: [Italy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) > [@](#): > > The official language of Italy is Standard Italian, descendant of Tuscan dialect and a direct descendant of Latin. (Some 75% of Italian words are of Latin origin.) In fact, you can see a large list of racist countries here, many of whom have only one official language. In fact, it looks like the US is dragging its feet behind the more enlightened countries by not having an official language. But that’s not a fact, that’s opinion. > **[List of official languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages)** > > This is a list of official, or otherwise administratively-recognized, languages of sovereign countries, regions, and supra-national institutions. The article also lists lots of languages which have no administrative mandate as an official language, generally describing these as de facto official languages. > Abkhaz: ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/92 "2006-08-07T12:52:23Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > If wanting or having an official language is racist, then the world is filled with racist countries. [Mel Blanc] Ummm, could be![/Mel] ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/93 "2006-08-07T13:45:37Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > [Mel Blanc] Ummm, could be![/Mel] Well, if you accept that premise whole-hog, then I guess the next fallacy to be attacked is that having a different language determines or is a primary determining factor in “race”. I think that will be a hard one to prove myself - as far as the twin evils of racism and intolerance go, most people I know who are subject to their impacts speak the same language I do. Then I guess we can ask why I see so little talk of countries like France being “racist” for having an official language - in fact, a few casual searches don’t pull up any instances of those who feel that a current US-based desire for an official language is “racist” also posting that the French are “racists” for having an official language. But I guess that must be the SDMB search database giving me problems, or me not using the proper search terms. It is Monday, after all… ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/94 "2006-08-07T14:20:51Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > If wanting or having an official language is racist, then the world is filled with racist countries. I said bigoted not racist. But the world is full of bigoted countries. And the English-only movement in the US is primarily a bigoted movement supported by primarily by bigots. And FWIW, Spanish (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, territory of Puerto Rico) is as US a language as French (Louisiana) or English (the other 50 states). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/95 "2006-08-07T14:25:35Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Sorry to come in and post some facts in a thread, but claiming that advocating an official language is a sign of racism is not borne up by the realities of peer nations to the US, and possibly insulting to those truly subject to the evil of racism. That is all true. But it is also true that, in the U.S., “language” and “culture” have been used as code-words for “race” and the “Official English” movement was a cover for a racist agenda from the start. From [_Blood, Class and Nostalgia: Anglo-American Ironies,_](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0374114439/sr=8-1/qid=1153879852/ref=sr_1_1/103-8508178-8162241?redirect=true&ie=UTF8) by Christopher Hitchens, discussing the “official English” movement of 1988: > [@](#): > > U.S. English, it emerged, was a project of “U.S. Inc.,” a tax-exempt body which underwrote a number of other groups, such as the Center for Immigration Studies, Americans for Border Control, and Californians for Population Stabilization. There was no mistaking the timbre of this joint output, which had little to do with the teaching of “the Queen’s English” except as this bore upon the connection between that English and certain inherited conceptions of race and tribal security. Dr. John Tanton, the originating author of this cluster of groups and initiatives, was himself in no doubt that “the question of bilingualism grows out of U.S. immigration policy.” > > So much might have seemed obvious, at least until Dr. Tanton wrote a paper which, phrased in the poor and affected English which is often found among the language’s more ostentatious upholders, created a crisis for his hitherto blue-chip WASP and Jewish campaign. As he coarsely put it: > > > [@](#): > > > > _“Gobernar es poblar”_ translates as “to govern is to populate.” In this society, will the present majority peaceably hand over its political power to a group that is simply more fertile? Can _homo contraceptivus_ compete with _homo progenitiva_ if borders aren’t controlled? > > Having rather clumsily Latinized or Romanized his argument, Tanton moved to a more demotic style. He warned sternly of such alarming cultural imports as "the tradition of the _mordida_ (bribe), the lack of involvement in public affairs, and Roman Catholicism with its tendency to “pitch out the separation of church and state.” He continued to skirt around these aspects of the problem – the most conspicuous opponents of church-state separation in the 1980s have been fundamentalist Protestants – making an excursion through allegedly low “educability” before returning with relish to his main theme, which was, as ever, sex and fertility: > > > [@](#): > > > > Perhaps this is the first instance in which those with their pants up are going to get caught by those with their pants down. As whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion? > > This piece of inadvertence – the shift to “white” as the key word speaks volumes in the extract above, as well as showing the secondary significance of ideas like “culture” and “language” – led to the resignation of many of the U.S. English board members, among them Walter Cronkite and the neoconservative Hispanic Linda Chavez. It also led to closer scrutiny of the network of which Dr. Tanton was the convenor. The chairman of the Florida English campaign, for example, had advocated the elimination of emergency telephone services in Spanish in order to supply what he called an “incentive” to the learning of the tongue of Shakespeare and Dickens. His Dade County equivalent had warned that “the United States is not a mongrel nation.” Rusty Butler, an aide to Senator Steven Symms of Idaho, had forwarded the senator’s call for an English-language amendment to the Constitution by saying that “the language issue could feed and guide terrorism in the U.S.” Finally, it was discovered that among the donors to Dr. Tanton’s network was the Pioneer Fund, established in the unpropitious year of 1937 to proselytize for what it then called “applied genetics in present-day Germany.” ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/96 "2006-08-07T17:04:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That is all true. But it is also true that, in the U.S., “language” and “culture” have been used as code-words for “race” and the “Official English” movement was a cover for a racist agenda from the start. In that respect, then, one would have to have some compelling evidence that the person in question is using the desire for an official language as a racist “code-word”. Now, IIRC we’ve had a few misunderstandings in the Pit where people accused others of something or another over code-words or code-numbers even. I don’t think we want to re-open the whole code/magic numbers thing, as that seemed to really embarass a few people, but I have no idea whether or not this Santroum fellow is a member of a racist movement. And if there isn’t other evidence that shows he’s only using it as a “code word”, then claiming that the official language thing is a racist agenda is, well, not quite supported. Thus far the evidence seems to be he’s a Republican, wants to build a wall to stop illegal immigration from its primary source (Mexico), and wants to protect “American Culture”, whatever the hell that is. So a more chartiable reading of those points might give another opinion - that he’s a guy who wants to have an official language for the sake of efficiency and smaller goverment spending (printing all government publications in 2 or more languages could be a huge cost), wants to grab the low-hanging fruit in slowing down illegal immigration (the border of Mexico is unquestionably the largest source of illegal immigrants, regardless of the initial country of origin of the immigrants themselves), and finally, I guess by defending American Culture…well, I’m not sure what he means by that; it seems the least-defensible thing. Maybe he’s harkening to a misguided and warped 1950’s-type world where men were men and drove Cadillacs with tailfins, women were women and stayed in the kitchen and had a martini ready for the man when he got home, and Junior was an Eagle Scout who would grow up to marry the girl next door. But rolling out the racism charge really seemed odd to me based on so little. If I hadn’t had such a boring morning today and been recently looking up the question of “official languages” and history, I guess I wouldn’t even have commented at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/97 "2006-08-07T17:29:13Z")
Its not that the “English only” meme is, by definition, racist. But, as I’m sure you recognize, it offers cover and camouflage. It permits a re-definition, so that a person who might otherwise examine his opinions in a harsh light is allowed a softer, gentler definition. No, of course, I have nothing against Mexicans, I’m just terribly concerned about the Gov. printing office budget. And efficiency. Lay awake nights, worrying about efficiency. Racism is no longer acceptable in America, and thank the Good Lord for it. Very few people will admit, even to themselves, that they have any taint of racism. In most cases, if forced to confront thier own racism, people will change, at least outwardly. Step one, for the optimist, best you can hope for, pessimist. But offer such a person some cover, some camouflage, for the same attitudes and they are much less likely to make the needed changes, to confront themselves. As far as language goes, I would relate a current joke: what do you call someone who speaks several languages? Multi-lingual. Someone who speaks two? Bi-lingual. Someone who speaks only one? American. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/98 "2006-08-07T17:32:33Z")
Just so… This might be an explanation, therefore it is the explanation. Frankly, I don’t put any trust in theories that rely on secret decoder rings. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/99 "2006-08-07T17:43:15Z")
I appreciate the frankness, **John**. I think the “secret decoder ring” implication is a meaningless bit of snark. In all candor, with all due awe. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/100 "2006-08-07T17:50:28Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Just so… > > This might be an explanation, therefore it is the explanation. Frankly, I don’t put any trust in theories that rely on secret decoder rings. On the other hand, the arguments advanced in favor of English as an official language are so weak that it seems that some guessing at ulterior motives is necessary. It is possible for people to support political issues for reasons that aren’t socially acceptable; it seems awfully foolish to completely ignore the possibility that a politician might be lying about their motives. I know that honesty and trustworthiness is what our legislators are usually known for, but the explanations offered for the necessity of English as an official language don’t strike me or a lot of other people as sufficient for the amount of money and energy people have spent advancing that goal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891.md?page=6)