# Fucking Santorum's latest bit of slime... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891 "2006-08-01T15:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/101 "2006-08-07T19:04:17Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > On the other hand, the arguments advanced in favor of English as an official language are so weak that it seems that some guessing at ulterior motives is necessary. > > It is possible for people to support political issues for reasons that aren’t socially acceptable; it seems awfully foolish to completely ignore the possibility that a politician might be lying about their motives. I know that honesty and trustworthiness is what our legislators are usually known for, but the explanations offered for the necessity of English as an official language don’t strike me or a lot of other people as sufficient for the amount of money and energy people have spent advancing that goal. Listen, I have no doubt that many people support that issue for less than noble reasons. But there is a legitimate interest in the state fostering things that bring us together as a nation, and nothing does that more than a common language. So, in this particular case (ie, Santorum) you need to give me a lot more than some mumbo-jumbo about code words to convince me the guys is a racist. OTOH, the code word theory does offer the convenience of smearing someone without the hassle of giving any tanigible proof. Which is what I think is being done here. There are plenty or reasons to dis Santorum, but a trumped-up charge of racism isn’t one of them. At least not without more proof than I’ve seen offered in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/102 "2006-08-07T19:41:50Z")
Here’s [more information](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15203194.htm) about the Pennsylvania Green Old Party, and the work that went into collecting the signatures. Apparently they not only funded the effort but they did the work as well. As a resident of PA, this tidbit definitely caught my eye: > [@](#): > > The intern, petitions show, collected signatures from voters in five counties in one day. […] > > It’s examples such as the apparent one-person, five-county petition tour - plus unregistered voters, multiple signatures by the same person, and fake names - that could form the basis of a challenge, Rooney said. John Michael Glick - the Santorum intern who has worn a duck costume to hound Casey for “ducking” issues - appeared to have collected signatures in Beaver, Washington, Fayette, Juniata, and Schuylkill Counties, Rooney said. That’s a hell of a day, travelling to all those counties and collecting signatures. Not impossible, but certainly eyebrow raising. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/103 "2006-08-07T21:18:33Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > As a resident of PA, this tidbit definitely caught my eye:That’s a hell of a day, travelling to all those counties and collecting signatures. Not impossible, but certainly eyebrow raising. Just for those unfamiliar with Pennsylvania’s inner political divisions, Washington and Beaver Counties are out near Pittsburgh, Fayette and Juniata are very central and Schuykill is near Philadelphia. That’s a hell of a signature-collecting tour… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/104 "2006-08-07T21:20:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Just for those unfamiliar with Pennsylvania’s inner political divisions, Washington and Beaver Counties are out near Pittsburgh, Fayette and Juniata are very central and Schuykill is near Philadelphia. That’s a hell of a signature-collecting tour… Correcting myself…Fayette is adjacent to Washington County, south of Pittsburgh. [url=http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/pennsylvania.shtml] is a map of PA counties… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/105 "2006-08-07T21:21:35Z")
Crapness… [Map](http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/pennsylvania.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/106 "2006-08-07T21:54:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Just so… > > This might be an explanation, therefore it is the explanation. Frankly, I don’t put any trust in theories that rely on secret decoder rings. That’s a fair point, but Santorum _is_ a bigot. I don’t think there’s any serious disagreement on that score, right? He’s one of the most shameless homophobes in Congress, and considering who else is in Congress, that’s quite a feat. As such, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to question his motives in other causes, particularly ones that are composed in large part (although certainly not _exclusively_, or even _mostly_) by racists. A lot of racists do support English-only laws, and Santorum certainly has the moral character of a racist. It’s nothing at all like _proof_, but I think it’s a reasonable inference, considering the nature of the man in question. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/107 "2006-08-07T21:58:53Z")
Nothin’ racist about hating queers, unless you only hate black queers. I suppose a man of his moral rectumtude might actually \*approve \* of Christian queers, if that were not a contradiction in terms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/108 "2006-08-07T22:48:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s a fair point, but Santorum _is_ a bigot. I don’t think there’s any serious disagreement on that score, right? He’s one of the most shameless homophobes in Congress, and considering who else is in Congress, that’s quite a feat. As such, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to question his motives in other causes, particularly ones that are composed in large part (although certainly not _exclusively_, or even _mostly_) by racists. A lot of racists do support English-only laws, and Santorum certainly has the moral character of a racist. It’s nothing at all like _proof_, but I think it’s a reasonable inference, considering the nature of the man in question. Yes, he’s one of the most anti-gay Senators in Congress. I don’t think eveyrone who is against SSM is a bigot, but if Santorum supports legislation against even civil unions, or if he supports legislation making homosexual acts illegal, then I wouldn’t hesitate to call him a bigot. I’m not sure how you conclude that he has “the moral character of a racist” or how that differs from being a racist, though. That sounds like yet another way of calling him a racist without producing any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/109 "2006-08-07T22:57:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yes, he’s one of the most anti-gay Senators in Congress. I don’t think eveyrone who is against SSM is a bigot, but if Santorum supports legislation against even civil unions, or if he supports legislation making homosexual acts illegal, then I wouldn’t hesitate to call him a bigot. I’m not sure how you conclude that he has “the moral character of a racist” or how that differs from being a racist, though. That sounds like yet another way of calling him a racist without producing any evidence. C’mon, this is the guy who said that legalizing gay marriage, or whatever will lead to “Man on dog”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/110 "2006-08-07T23:16:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > C’mon, this is the guy who said that legalizing gay marriage, or whatever will lead to “Man on dog”. How is that racist? (Assuming he actually said that.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/111 "2006-08-07T23:17:24Z")
Not a racist, a bigot. Important distinction, **John**. Our semantic precision would suffer gravely were it not for your diligence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/112 "2006-08-07T23:22:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not a racist, a bigot. Important distinction, **John**. Our semantic precision would suffer gravely were it not for your diligence. It wasn’t even remotely clear that that is what she meant. In fact, it’s not clear how that would make him a bigot either. It might make him rather stupid about how the law works, but it wouldn’t make him a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/113 "2006-08-07T23:59:52Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It might make him rather stupid about how the law works, but it wouldn’t make him a bigot. The law. The world. Human beings. So, he’s an ignoramus, absolutely. The bigot verdict is still out, though. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/114 "2006-08-08T00:23:26Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It wasn’t even remotely clear that that is what she meant. In fact, it’s not clear how that would make him a bigot either. It might make him rather stupid about how the law works, but it wouldn’t make him a bigot. That was exactly what I meant-the man IS a bigot. This is Rick Santorum we’re talking about. Trust me, he’s a fucking bigot. I can’t wait to vote his sorry ass out in November. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/115 "2006-08-08T00:38:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m not sure how you conclude that he has “the moral character of a racist” or how that differs from being a racist, though. That sounds like yet another way of calling him a racist without producing any evidence. What I meant to say is that someone who hates homosexuals is just as bad as someone who hates blacks. It’s not _evidence_ that he hates blacks, it’s just that he posseses the same moral defect. We know Santorum is a bigot. We know that he uses prejudice and ignorance in making his policy decisions when it comes to homosexuals. This is at least circumstantial evidence that he might use prejudice and ignorance in making policy decisions about immigrants. It’s not proof, by any means, but it is at least reason to view his position on those issues with suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/116 "2006-08-08T02:10:22Z")
I don’t know that he hates homosexuals. He seems to me like a religious fanatic whose views on homosexuality are informed completely by his religion. He probably thinks God will literally punish this country if we endorse “the gay lifestyle”. Is that bigotry? I dunno. When I think of bigotry in the realm of politics, I think of someone like Ann Coulter. Does he endorse measures such as banning gays from teaching in schools? That would probably rise to the level of bigotry, IMO. But liike I said earlier in this thread, his religiosity creeps me out, and I don’t think guys like that should be making our laws. So perhaps it is “of no consequence”, whether we agree on the finer points. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/117 "2006-08-08T02:50:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What I meant to say is that someone who hates homosexuals is just as bad as someone who hates blacks. It’s not _evidence_ that he hates blacks, it’s just that he posseses the same moral defect. We know Santorum is a bigot. We know that he uses prejudice and ignorance in making his policy decisions when it comes to homosexuals. This is at least circumstantial evidence that he might use prejudice and ignorance in making policy decisions about immigrants. It’s not proof, by any means, but it is at least reason to view his position on those issues with suspicion. Santorum advocates policies that promote traditional marriage, therefore he\* must\* \*have \*used ignorance and prejudice to come to his position, therefore he _must have_ a _moral defect_, which is akin to one _some_ people _might_ have who support English as an Official Language, therefore we _know_ he is a bigot, therefore we _know_ he _might_ use prejudice and ignorance in making policy decisions about immigrants, therefore it is reasonable to view his postition on “those issues” with suspicion, therfore he is a bigot. …and so on. Nice job, Miller. But you left out the parts about how Santorum must probably be a member of the KKK and wants to kill all Black babies and how he’s probably in cahoots with fellow gay-hating homophobe bigot Fred Phelps. Oh yeah, and how he wants to shoot all illegal immigrants on sight. I must say, Miller, this is not like you. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/118 "2006-08-08T03:01:55Z")
No. Santorum promotes a constitutional amendment to exclude homosexuals from marrying solely because they are homosexuals, therefore he is a bigot. He bases this on his religious beliefs, something that we are not supposed to use to base our laws on, therefore he is not an effective lawmaker. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/119 "2006-08-08T03:04:17Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > No. Santorum promotes a constitutional amendment to exclude homosexuals from marrying solely because they are homosexuals, therefore he is a bigot. He bases this on his religious beliefs, something that we are not supposed to use to base our laws on, therefore he is not an effective lawmaker. If you say so. As long as you get to hurl “bogot” his way all is good, right? Knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891/120 "2006-08-08T03:11:34Z")
Well, I know it’s rather a cliche, but really, intolerance against any group based on hate or religion is, by definition, bigotry. I don’t have to “hurl” it, it’s fairly self evident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-santorums-latest-bit-of-slime/366891.md?page=7)