# Fucking Savages (Al Qaeda) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080 "2004-06-18T17:56:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/41 "2004-06-18T22:59:52Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’m already sorry I lost my temper enough to propse killing innocent people. I wonder, though, how many of the Arabs in the street are really innocent? It seems that someone over there, if they really oppose the terrorists, could have dropped a dime on a few of them and in time to save a life. I understand that causing the death or capture of one of those scumbags would put your life and the lives of your family in serious danger. Even so, if those guys win, Saddam will seem like a loving benefactor by comparison. I wonder if the average Arab could do any better than the average New Yorker at ratting out the Mafia? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/42 "2004-06-18T23:22:34Z")
I feel horrible for the latest poor bastard that got his head chopped off by fanatics, and for his family. I have a feeling, however, that the groups responsible for these acts are likely to start turning off the man in the Arab street if they keep this up. Despite what some people around here may think, there’s a pretty strong code of fair behavior running through Islam, and these guys ain’t following it. Meanwhile, just thought I’d mention that that paragon of the sober and rational opinion, **Milum** , has weighed in on this issue in GD. He’d welcome your comments, I’m sure: > **[The Latest Beheading by Terrorists](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262357)** > > Hey Gang, did anyone happen to catch the latest beheading of an innocent American citizen on TV today? Whatcha think? So far no one here has mentioned it. Does no one stand agog against such barbarism. Are you all becoming jaded to everyday... ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/43 "2004-06-18T23:38:54Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > As far as the public beheadings; they are for rape, murder, narcotics dealing and that’s about it. Serious crimes where it is tough to work up a lot of sympathy for the guy being executed. They happen fairly frequently, maybe twice a month in Riyadh. I’ve accidentally seen a couple of executions but for these guys I’d go watch. This evoked a question: Does the use of beheading as a routine, public punishment in at least this one stringently Islamic country (Saudi Arabia) predispose Muslim fundamentalist terrorists to employ it for their victims? Is beheading for serious crimes a component of, for example, Sharia law – if only as interpreted by the more fanatical strains of Islam? Is beheading, then, no big deal for al-Qaeda oeperatives? Or is it deliberately chosen for its shock effect upon Westerners? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/44 "2004-06-19T00:26:17Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’m already sorry I lost my temper enough to propse killing innocent people. I wonder, though, how many of the Arabs in the street are really innocent? It seems that someone over there, if they really oppose the terrorists, could have dropped a dime on a few of them and in time to save a life. I understand that causing the death or capture of one of those scumbags would put your life and the lives of your family in serious danger. Even so, if those guys win, Saddam will seem like a loving benefactor by comparison. Like someone already pointed out, it’d be like ratting out Don Corleone. Hell, they’ve probably got the average citizens quaking in his or her boots. And even if they’re not personally afraid, they’ve got families to think of. These animals most likely would not hesitate to kidnap and torture little Muhammed or little Shari if they could. What gets me though, is it looks like there’s no forseeable way out. They torture one of our’s, we retaliate by killing them, then THEIR allies come after us, repeat, etc. It’s just a viscious cycle. Where does it all end? When we’re all dead? Sometimes I despair for the human race. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/45 "2004-06-19T00:31:52Z")
The radical Islamics need to be captured and killed! They are simply defective and not worth trying to fix. This is the sickness that we need to continue to fight. There is no middle ground, they do not want to negotiate, they want us dead. Reminds me of the sick bastard that killed another person on the highway just after midnight on new years - wanted the fist kill of the year. Some people are just broken and not worth attempting repair. God, it does want to make me wish for a total wipeout of the ME. I know that most are not on the side of AQ but I bet most are sympathetic. :mad: Paul Johnson will not be forgoten ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/46 "2004-06-19T02:04:47Z")
Great, now the terrorists will force innocents to dispose the next bodies in public, and subject those innocents to danger. I hope there are no next bodies. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/47 "2004-06-19T03:46:21Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > This evoked a question: Does the use of beheading as a routine, public punishment in at least this one stringently Islamic country (Saudi Arabia) predispose Muslim fundamentalist terrorists to employ it for their victims? Is beheading for serious crimes a component of, for example, Sharia law – if only as interpreted by the more fanatical strains of Islam? > > Is beheading, then, no big deal for al-Qaeda oeperatives? Or is it deliberately chosen for its shock effect upon Westerners? I see there’s a story on [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) addressing my questions: [Al Qaeda uses beheadings for the fear factor](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/beheadings.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/48 "2004-06-19T04:02:36Z")
**ETF** , I posted [a question similar to yours](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4981991#post4981991) in GQ earlier tonight. You may find it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/49 "2004-06-19T04:45:13Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Not in any way to mitigate the murderers’ actions, but is calling the victim a “noncombatant” strictly accurate? Serious question, honest. Is it the case, or is it not, that “contractor” is a euphemism for “mercenary”? > > Not stating a position here; seriously asking a question. Paul was a mechanic and technician, not any kind of combatant or mercenary. The coptors that the terrorists consider so dangerous had probably never even been used as combat vehicles. The Saudi military has tons of toys like that which never get used. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/50 "2004-06-19T04:51:43Z")
> [@Casey1505](#): > > **ETF** , I posted [a question similar to yours](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4981991#post4981991) in GQ earlier tonight. You may find it interesting. Thanks! I’m off to check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/51 "2004-06-19T05:34:34Z")
> [@litost](#): > > **Testy** , stay safe! > > I read that the media and top Muslim clerics openly denounced this kidnapping. > > [BBC NEWS | Middle East | Saudi cleric pleads for hostage](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3819889.stm) > > I also get the impression the average Saudi and the royal family don’t approve of this. There is no way this can be beneficial to the ruling govt. So, are you referring to the alleged financial support the royal family has been funneling to Islamist terrorist organizations to keep them under control? If yes, do they realize it is coming back to bite their ass? Are we headed for a revolution of sorts? The royals certainly don’t like the terrorists. OBL and his boys would have the royals in front of an adobe wall in a heartbeat. Having said that, the royal family isn’t a monolithic entity and many of them would cut a deal with the devil if it helped them hang on to power just a little bit longer. Most Westerners tend to think of the royal family as being a king and quenn and a few princes/princesses waiting in the wings. Saudi is different. There are literally thousands of princes and no one even counts the princesses, all of which have to be coddled and supported in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to. As far as the support for the terrorists, that is hard to explain. The Saudis take their charitable duties seriously, at least in public, and have given many millions of dollars to various charities. I would personally be amazed if some of that money hadn’t made it into the pockets of OBL and the like. The charities are run very loosely around here and a lot of the money simply evaporates before it makes it to its destination. I seriously doubt the royals were ever handing money to OBL. A more likely scenario is that they were simply stupid and got scammed. Many of those clerics that were denouncing the terror tactics were openly advocating them not so long ago. The police rounded up the worst of the group and jailed them for a bit after the attacks last May. The clerics got out on a promise not to do that again. I don’t believe a revolution will happen any time soon but there is a frightening amount of anger among the average Saudis about the way their country is run and it is always easier (and a good deal safer) to blame foreigners. Despite all the billions of dollars they receive, very little of it trickles down to the little guys while the royals and certain businessmen live in palaces you would have to see to believe. There is an enormous unemployment rate among the younger men and it isn’t going to get fixed any time soon. No one wants to hire Saudis. EVen the Saudis don’t want to hire Saudis. A company is much more profitable if they hire Indians and Pakistanis with some Western types as management and just enough Saudis for window dressing. The Ministry of Labor constantly makes new laws that are supposed to increase employment and the laws have exactly the opposite effect. The younger Saudis do not have either the education or the work-ethic required to succeed in business. Having said all those nasty things, I’ve got to say that many of my Saudi friends are a credit to both their religion and their country. They are the exceptions though. Apologies for the rambling nature of this post but I just woke up and haven’t had my caffiene fix yet. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/52 "2004-06-19T06:10:32Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’m already sorry I lost my temper enough to propse killing innocent people. I wonder, though, how many of the Arabs in the street are really innocent? It seems that someone over there, if they really oppose the terrorists, could have dropped a dime on a few of them and in time to save a life. I understand that causing the death or capture of one of those scumbags would put your life and the lives of your family in serious danger. Even so, if those guys win, Saddam will seem like a loving benefactor by comparison. It is hard to say how many AQ supporters there are here. OBL and his boys play the religious card very well and there are a lot of hyper-religious people around. I don’t think there are many active AQ types but there are a HUGE number that would hesitate to turn in their Islamic brothers to the cops. The worry is that the cops and the security services have also been infiltrated by the religious types and that they may turn a blind eye toward any terrorists they see. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/53 "2004-06-19T06:23:56Z")
> [@Blown & Injected](#): > > The radical Islamics need to be captured and killed! They are simply defective and not worth trying to fix. > > This is the sickness that we need to continue to fight. There is no middle ground, they do not want to negotiate, they want us dead. > > Reminds me of the sick bastard that killed another person on the highway just after midnight on new years - wanted the fist kill of the year. Some people are just broken and not worth attempting repair. > > God, it does want to make me wish for a total wipeout of the ME. I know that most are not on the side of AQ but I bet most are sympathetic. > :mad: > > Paul Johnson will not be forgoten How noble of you to make a bet with the lives of people in the “ME.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/54 "2004-06-19T06:42:59Z")
…what the heck do the Saudi “security forces” do? They manage to FIND and KILL the leader of the gang (who beheaded Johnson) WITHIN HOURS of the killing? How did they know this? Add this to the incident last week, where the SA security forces ALLOWED terrorists to escape…what is going on? It is beginning to look like the end isin sight for the Saudi government… as I said before, watch what the royalfamilies do fromnowon…if these people start buying lots of estates in Switzerland, watch out! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/55 "2004-06-19T06:52:41Z")
The Saudi Government has responded. The perps’ were shot while resisting arrest. What more do you want? What I don’t like is the news reports showing foreigners leaving the country in droves ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/56 "2004-06-19T07:50:34Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > The Saudis take their charitable duties seriously, at least in public, and have given many millions of dollars to various charities. I would personally be amazed if some of that money hadn’t made it into the pockets of OBL and the like. The charities are run very loosely around here and a lot of the money simply evaporates before it makes it to its destination. I seriously doubt the royals were ever handing money to OBL. A more likely scenario is that they were simply stupid and got scammed. **Testy** Robert Baer (cited in one of my earlier posts) writes that some of the royals are indeed directly funneling money to AQ. From the article, he talks about Abdul Aziz, the son of the fourth wife of King Fahd: > [@](#): > > …September of 1997 he helped to coordinate that $100 million aid package for the Taliban, even though the Taliban were protecting bin Laden–a man who not only had vowed to overthrow the House of Saud but also seemed increasingly capable of doing so. I think this ties into what you wrote about how the different princes are cutting deals with different segments to gain power. I’ve also read about how the royals fund numerous schools which teach a virulent strain of Islam round the world (Pakistan, Afghanistan etc). Of course, they are probably doing this to keep the Muslim clerics at bay but it is like making a truce with the devil. I am interested in knowing a couple of things: (i) The article talks highly of Crown Prince Abdullah. Is he in a position to take over and institute reforms? (ii) Is the average Saudi a true believer in Wahhabism? If yes, I wonder how that can be helped. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/57 "2004-06-19T08:25:26Z")
> [@PetW](#): > > How noble of you to make a bet with the lives of people in the “ME.” WTH are you talking about? Just in case you are not familiar with the terminology, when I said I bet they are sympathetic, it means that my opinion is that the average ME person (also not the best choice of words - of course I mean about any hate-Americans/Westerners type person regardless of where they live) would hold that American’s and Israelis are deserving of of the terrorist attacks. I made no bet with any lives 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/58 "2004-06-19T08:28:41Z")
Oh shit, now some chump is gonna flap about my post not making sense because of the double “of” near the end of the post. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/59 "2004-06-19T10:01:15Z")
> [@Blown & Injected](#): > > Oh shit, now some chump is gonna flap about my post not making sense because of the double “of” near the end of the post. No, some chump is gonna flap about your post not making sense because it’s a complete pile of horse shit. As we’re making bets, I’ll bet that you’ve never been to an Arabic or Middle Eastern country. I’ll bet you’ve never spoken to people that live there. And I’ll bet that you’re guilty of balatant fucking stereotyping. I don’t think you’re in a position to decide what “most” people in the Middle East think. Seems that as far as you’re concerned, any guy who lives in a sandy place and wears a head-dress wants you and your family dead :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080/60 "2004-06-19T10:55:12Z")
\ > [@Colophon](#): > > I don’t think Well that is good because every time you have tried to think, you weaken the nation! Get a fucking clue jackass, you have no idea were I have been. Even if I have never been there, anybody that has watched or read or listened to any interview with a Muslim, has heard the that person say, if the question is asked, something to the effect of the US brought it on because of their foreign policy - that often translates to: because you are Jew lovers. That is being sympathetic to the terrorists you dumb fuck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-savages-al-qaeda/251080.md?page=4)