# Fucking SCOTUS upholds woman-hating "partial-birth" abortion ban. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628 "2007-04-18T14:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/101 "2007-04-19T04:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] True enough. I imagine a blow-by-blow of my hemorrhoidectomy would be a gruesome read as well, but I’m still glad I wasn’t legislated into Option B, which I understand involves a mallet, a chisel, a liter of tequila, and a friend you can _really_ trust. [/QUOTE] Thanks dude, needed a right proper gut bust there! PS: Tequila-anaesthetic or disinfectant? If both, in which order? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/102 "2007-04-19T04:26:38Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I seem to recall being annoyed by **FriarTed** in the past over his similar enjoyment of the idea that hard atheists would be reduced to weeping, pant-wetting wrecks upon meeting him upstairs at death. [/QUOTE] I believe that was him; he strikes me as being a member of the Gloating Smirkers for Jesus sect of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/103 "2007-04-19T08:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] So you are so vehemently against abortion, that forcing a woman who may have a life-threatening condition to undergo a more risky procedure to save her life is a moral victory? What kind of morals do you have? You’re sick. [/QUOTE] The very people who perform these abortions say the vast majority of them are performed on healthy women, not those who have a life-threatening condition. The National Coalition of Abortion providers states: > [@](#): > > in the vast majority of cases" the method is used on "a healthy mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/104 "2007-04-19T08:40:01Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] … The National Coalition of Abortion providers states: > [@](#): > > in the vast majority of cases" the method is used on "a healthy mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along [/QUOTE] Funny that it’s not on their page about “Partial Birth Abortion”, [http://www.ncap.com/promoting\_ncap.html#Partial\_Birth\_Abortion](http://www.ncap.com/promoting_ncap.html#Partial_Birth_Abortion). Cite? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/105 "2007-04-19T08:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > On a semi related note, how in the hell can a gynecologist be licenced to practice without knowing how to remove a dead fetus? How bad does decomposition have to get before they’ll go in and get it out? Does a woman have to have a bloodstream resembling a Calcutta drainage ditch before a surgeon will intervene? I don’t know the answers, but it seems to me (as someone who’s had a couple of miscarriages and one live birth) that I would not feel confident in any OB/GYN who couldn’t handle this sort of situation. Sure, it’s not common, but it’s not unknown, either. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/106 "2007-04-19T10:40:47Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I seem to recall being annoyed by **FriarTed** in the past over his similar enjoyment of the idea that hard atheists would be reduced to weeping, pant-wetting wrecks upon meeting him upstairs at death. I have no doubt he believes, but mentally he doesn’t always seem that into it. [/QUOTE] Well, a slightly more accurate precis would entail mentioning that this was directed at the particular subset of hard atheists who like to brag about how they’d spit in God’s eye if they ever met him, and, and, and _kick him inna rocks too_! LOL! So he was contrasting this particularly silly piece of childishness with how he thought the interview would be a little more likely to go. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/107 "2007-04-19T11:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Duplicate post? 😉 [/QUOTE] More like I thought it would be a better post if I listed the concurring justices. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/108 "2007-04-19T11:19:39Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Well, a slightly more accurate precis would entail mentioning that this was directed at the particular subset of hard atheists who like to brag about how they’d spit in God’s eye if they ever met him, and, and, and _kick him inna rocks too_! LOL! So he was contrasting this particularly silly piece of childishness with how he thought the interview would be a little more likely to go. [/QUOTE] Do you have a link ? I don’t recall it like that. As for what would really happen, I expect I’d be too busy screaming while he tortured me to say anything to him. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/109 "2007-04-19T11:25:39Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Do you have a link ? I don’t recall it like that. As for what would really happen, I expect I’d be too busy screaming while he tortured me to say anything to him. [/QUOTE] Well, you know, if anyone wants to allude to what the Friar said, I’d say it was incumbent on them to provide the link in the first place; but since someone else started it, I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to quote off the top of my head like everyone else. As for you, I’m afraid that your view of the world to come appears to be coloured by your rather bleak view of the one you live in. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/110 "2007-04-19T12:58:47Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Well, a slightly more accurate precis would entail mentioning that this was directed at the particular subset of hard atheists who like to brag about how they’d spit in God’s eye if they ever met him, and, and, and _kick him inna rocks too_! LOL! So he was contrasting this particularly silly piece of childishness with how he thought the interview would be a little more likely to go. [/QUOTE] I don’t disagree with your memory of the situation. And hey, if it had just been “yeah, no, this is how it would probably go” I probably would have laughed along with him. But it’s not the belief that that’ll happen I thought was bad (wrong, of course, but not bad ;)), but rather the fact that **FriarTed** seemed to absolutely relish this occurring. It’s one thing to think someone will be put in their place, and quite another to actually enjoy the thought of it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/111 "2007-04-19T13:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] Funny that it’s not on their page about “Partial Birth Abortion”, [http://www.ncap.com/promoting\_ncap.html#Partial\_Birth\_Abortion](http://www.ncap.com/promoting_ncap.html#Partial_Birth_Abortion). Cite? CMC fnord! [/QUOTE] Stout, David (1997), “An Abortion Rights Advocate Says He Lied About Procedure”. _The New York Times_, 26 Feb, p. 12A. It’s an article in which Ron Fitzsimmons, the Executive Director of the NCAP, admitted that when he stated on Nightline that IDX is typically done on women in medical distress that he was lying. He remains the Chairman of the NCAP to this day (to my knowledge–I believe he stepped down as Executive Director following his scandalous remarks in the NYT), and in the article he was quoted as saying it is in fact routinely performed on healthy women the vast majority of the time. The exact quote from the article is: > [@](#): > > In the vast majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along, Mr. Fitzsimmons said. “The abortion-rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so, probably, does everyone else,” he said in the article in the Medical News, an American Medical Association publication. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/112 "2007-04-19T13:23:09Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7775686&postcount=69](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7775686&postcount=69) I’ll help ya out. I did direct such sentiment to the God/Jesus-haters, not to atheists or unbelievers, specifically in response to **badchad**. I also later mellowed & apologized but I will own up to saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/113 "2007-04-19T13:31:11Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Stout, David (1997), “An Abortion Rights Advocate Says He Lied About Procedure”. _The New York Times_, 26 Feb, p. 12A. It’s an article in which Ron Fitzsimmons, the Executive Director of the NCAP, admitted that when he stated on Nightline that IDX is typically done on women in medical distress that he was lying. He remains the Chairman of the NCAP to this day (to my knowledge–I believe he stepped down as Executive Director following his scandalous remarks in the NYT), and in the article he was quoted as saying it is in fact routinely performed on healthy women the vast majority of the time. The exact quote from the article is: [/QUOTE] Cite with link to the NYT article? Not to be too bitchy about the matter, but I’d like to see the source of your info. Misinformation and exaggeration amongst advocacy groups is a consistent problem in abortion discussions. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/114 "2007-04-19T13:39:29Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Cite with link to the NYT article? Not to be too bitchy about the matter, but I’d like to see the source of your info. Misinformation and exaggeration amongst advocacy groups is a consistent problem in abortion discussions. [/QUOTE] This is just a preview/abstract- one has to pay for the whole story. [http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30F17FE3C550C758EDDAB0894DF494D81](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30F17FE3C550C758EDDAB0894DF494D81) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/115 "2007-04-19T13:45:32Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Cite with link to the NYT article? Not to be too bitchy about the matter, but I’d like to see the source of your info. Misinformation and exaggeration amongst advocacy groups is a consistent problem in abortion discussions. [/QUOTE] Can’t help you with that unfortunately. I have the article in .pdf format, but don’t know where I got it originally and in googling I couldn’t find a link to the .pdf. If you put the info in to the NYT archive site you’ll get a small, free preview of the article, but not the whole thing. Misinformation is definitely a consistent problem–but the guy who said the quoted passage above was the Executive Director of _a pro-choice_ advocacy group. What motivations would he have for lying about this? He already lied about it once, when he said IDX was mostly performed in cases of medical emergency, as the head of an abortion rights organization it’s hard to imagine why he’d make a very public statement owning up to his lie and then releasing information which he knew would be exploited by the pro-life side–information that would be seen as damning by many. I’m not 100% sure on Fitszsimmons current status in the NCAP, but his response to calls that he step down from the organization following the scandal was, “We shouldn’t have to lie about why this is done, we have nothing to apologize for.” So he seems pretty passionate at advocating abortion rights, which is why I’m having trouble figure out what his pro-life agenda would be. Now, there is a valid question as to the validity of the facts. From what I understand, all figures on IDX and the patients they are performed on, be they from “neutral” “pro-life” or “pro-choice” groups come from a sampling of doctors who perform the procedures, they aren’t “hard numbers.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/116 "2007-04-19T14:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7775686&postcount=69](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7775686&postcount=69) I’ll help ya out. I did direct such sentiment to the God/Jesus-haters, not to atheists or unbelievers, specifically in response to **badchad**. I also later mellowed & apologized but I will own up to saying it. [/QUOTE] Well, then I apologise for misreprenting your opinion (though I still think you were wrong) and to everyone else for this hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/117 "2007-04-19T14:18:34Z")
Why is the health of the women who undergo the procedure relevant to the conversation? All that matters is that IDX is safer than a D&E. Healthy patients have as much right to the safest procedure as unhealthy ones. That issue is a complete red herring. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/118 "2007-04-19T14:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Well, then I apologise for misreprenting your opinion (though I still think you were wrong) and to everyone else for this hijack. [/QUOTE] Hey. I’m not too comfortable with it either in retrospect, but I do own up to saying it. Another thing in explanation, if not defense, I believe it was earlier in that thread _badchad_ made his infamous “Christ is a c\*\*t” comment, and while I was responding to a later post of his, I was still seething because of that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/119 "2007-04-19T15:08:52Z")
For the record, I don’t think **FriarTed** is malicious or bigoted and I don’t think he revels in the notion that those who disagree with him (or get abortions) might suffer. I think he sometimes gets excited, worked up or emotional at times (like we all do) and uses hyperbole (like a lot of us do). I just remember that practically everything he reads here regarding religion is (to varying degrees) at odds with his own beliefs and I know that can become exhausting and irritating after a while. I’ve had a lot of good exchanges with the guy even though we’re polar opposites on social and religious issues. He’s never been uncivil to me and I actually think he’s pretty well informed on Christian doctrine. I feel like I should stand up for the guy. He really isn’t the typical raging fundy stereotype. He’s just human. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628/120 "2007-04-19T16:40:29Z")
Ok, so when can we expect him to retract the BS about a abortion being an absolute right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-scotus-upholds-woman-hating-partial-birth-abortion-ban/400628.md?page=7)