# Fucking SecuRom **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014 "2008-11-30T03:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/41 "2008-12-02T06:37:42Z")
Securom is really stupid also in that it actually tries to prevent physical copying of the disc. I guess they’re trying to target people who are smart enough to copy a DVD yet not smart enough to bittorrent one? I don’t think that subsection of gamers is all that high. How do you think these DVD roms are ripped anyway? I guarantee you it’s on a Linux box 90 percent of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/42 "2008-12-02T10:14:33Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I can only hope there’s a random genius out there who comes up with a non-invasive, effective method that the companies immediately switch to. No such luck: The system you want can’t be made because DRM is always going to be cracked. The more effective DRM methods are invariably more invasive but even they fall after absurdly short periods of time. That isn’t based on some obscure computer science theory or even my own biases, but a pragmatic statement based on having watched this shit for far too long. DRM was cracked in the 1970s on Apple IIs, in the 1980s on IBM PCs, and in the 1990s and 2000s on PC clones and PC-like consoles. Tengen (aka Atari) based part of its business on cracking Nintendo’s DRM for the NES (the 10NES lockout chip) and now Slysoft, operating comfortably offshore in the copyright haven of Aruba, is basing its business on cracking DVD and Blu-Ray DRM. The only solution is to make buying stuff legitimately less of a hassle than getting it illegally. This would involve a complete reversal on the part of the companies involved comparable to the sudden flash of enlightenment preached by Zen Buddhism. I fully expect some corporate executives to disappear in a flash of blinding light when they realize the true reality of their business model: Providing a better experience than the pirates. In the meanwhile, DRM creates a strange technocracy: The people who are both willing and able to crack DRM live at least somewhat better lives than those who are unwilling or unable to remove the fetters. The class barrier is high enough people on one side are continually amazed when they’re exposed to how the other half lives. “_Unskippable_ content? On **my** DVDs? If I only played them with approved software, I guess it would be more likely than I think.” ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/43 "2008-12-02T12:15:23Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > In the meanwhile, DRM creates a strange technocracy: The people who are both willing and able to crack DRM live at least somewhat better lives than those who are unwilling or unable to remove the fetters. The class barrier is high enough people on one side are continually amazed when they’re exposed to how the other half lives. “_Unskippable_ content? On **my** DVDs? If I only played them with approved software, I guess it would be more likely than I think.” The fing is, due to the myriad ways that pirated content can be shared, and due to the rapidity with which DRMless content gets passed around, the divide isn’t between those who can crack DRM and those who can’t, it’s between those who know that it can be done (and know of the content channels from which to pirate software) and those who don’t. When the pirates are providing a product that is free and may come with malware that cripples your computer, and the companies are providing that same product for a lot of money and the certainty that it will come with malware, people start pirating, and pirates get the word-of-mouth advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/44 "2008-12-02T13:50:31Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > The fing is, due to the myriad ways that pirated content can be shared, and due to the rapidity with which DRMless content gets passed around, the divide isn’t between those who can crack DRM and those who can’t, it’s between those who know that it can be done (and know of the content channels from which to pirate software) and those who don’t. Right. I should have said that, but I didn’t. There are relatively few real crackers in the anti-DRM world, but unknown hundreds or thousands of people can leverage their talent, either by using their software or using the output of their software. That means it really only takes one bored kid to notice something about a DRM scheme or its implementation for it to be swiftly broken and rendered irrelevant for the kinds of people who want unfettered media. It’s impossible for the companies to deal with a threat model like that and, historically, they have completely failed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/45 "2008-12-02T16:05:19Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The only solution is to make buying stuff legitimately less of a hassle than getting it illegally. This would involve a complete reversal on the part of the companies involved comparable to the sudden flash of enlightenment preached by Zen Buddhism. I fully expect some corporate executives to disappear in a flash of blinding light when they realize the true reality of their business model: Providing a better experience than the pirates. Agreed. It certainly works for iTunes. Of course, even then, you have people ideologically opposed to DRM who won’t touch it, even though it’s a hassle-free experience that beats out trying to secure illegitimate music. An interesting phenomena I’ve been watching lately is Rifftrax (Mike Nelson’s current MST3K-like project, for those not aware). From the beginning, the audio files provided have always been open MP3s; no DRM at all. Since then, it’s ballooned from a one-man operation to three regulars plus a bunch of celebrity guest riffers including Weird Al Yankovic and Neil Patrick Harris. They’ve also begun offering MSTed public domain videos, again in non-DRM format. As far as I can tell, they’ve been extremely successful (or at least as successful as any online venture can hope to be, anyway). That may be due to the fact that they’re not dealing with mainstream but instead a core group of fans who want to give Nelson money, but it shows that avoiding DRM can still be profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/46 "2008-12-02T16:58:09Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > An interesting phenomena I’ve been watching lately is Rifftrax (Mike Nelson’s current MST3K-like project, for those not aware). From the beginning, the audio files provided have always been open MP3s; no DRM at all. Since then, it’s ballooned from a one-man operation to three regulars plus a bunch of celebrity guest riffers including Weird Al Yankovic and Neil Patrick Harris. They’ve also begun offering MSTed public domain videos, again in non-DRM format. As far as I can tell, they’ve been extremely successful (or at least as successful as any online venture can hope to be, anyway). That may be due to the fact that they’re not dealing with mainstream but instead a core group of fans who want to give Nelson money, but it shows that avoiding DRM can still be profitable. But for this to work, the people involved have to never get paranoid about how much money is (possibly) being stolen from them because of (possibly imaginary) piracy. This is easier for some creators than others (I remember shareware programmers going apeshit ballistic in pure text because they _just knew_ 200x more people were using their application without paying to register it than were using it honestly.) but it would require a Zen moment for the RIAA to ever even consider. Meanwhile, authors like Cory Doctorow and filmmakers like Jason Scott are apparently doing pretty well for themselves without DRM and without worrying about piracy. (Hell, they both actively encourage ‘piracy’ of their works and laugh at the people who go apeshit ballistic over it.) I’m going to predict that the next decade will see a real shakeout in the digital content world. The current DRM regime isn’t sustainable and, eventually, even the dumbest MBAs have to catch on to the fact there are people making profits without throwing their money down that rathole. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/47 "2008-12-02T18:26:45Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Agreed. It certainly works for iTunes. Of course, even then, you have people ideologically opposed to DRM who won’t touch it, even though it’s a hassle-free experience that beats out trying to secure illegitimate music. Heh. Tell that to the former customers of the “hassle-free” Yahoo Music store, “PlaysForSure” store, and Walmart music store. All were completely free of hassle until they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/48 "2008-12-02T19:38:38Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > So buy yourself a legal copy, DON’T OPEN IT (EULA’s are a bitch) then download a cracked copy of the game to actually install and use. You’ve paid the piper, you own a copy of the game to do whatever you wish with it, and you also have a safe piece of software that won’t cripple your shit. Win/win! I’ve thought about doing this, but just the whole idea of downloading the cracked copy just squicks me out. I haven’t ruled it out though – thanks for reminding me about this, though 😃 > [@elfkin477](#): > > There’s at least one class action suit already about SecuROM and Spore, so maybe in the future EA will stop putting that thing on their programs. Their messageboards for The Sims are full of people saying people don’t intend to buy The Sims 3 this winter if SecuROM is on it, so maybe the potential sales loss and legal suits will make them think a bit… Notta chance I am going to buy The Sims 3 if they keep this crap on it. Hopefully they WILL get the message. The stories I’ve read here and elsewhere just doesn’t make it worth the risk. Would be nice if EA lurked here. Maybe then they’d get a clue :x ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/49 "2008-12-02T20:55:51Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Agreed. It certainly works for iTunes. Of course, even then, you have people ideologically opposed to DRM who won’t touch it, even though it’s a hassle-free experience that beats out trying to secure illegitimate music. There is a DRM-free flavor of iTunes now. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/50 "2008-12-02T23:19:39Z")
If secure-rom bothers you, buy the product than download the DRM free version. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/51 "2008-12-03T05:21:54Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > If secure-rom bothers you, buy the product than download the DRM free version. Is this actually legal, or is it one of those ‘folk laws’ that has no bearing on reality? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/52 "2008-12-03T06:16:06Z")
Folk law. Which I don’t actually disagree with, but why should I freaking bother? I may have a moral thing about pirating software but considering the headache SecuRom can cause…I understnd why some folks who may not have such morals but would otherwise pay for the software don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/53 "2008-12-03T07:28:05Z")
Yup. I buy XBOX games and have abandoned PC gaming almost completely because of this. I won’t use iTunes or any other online music store. I buy CDs and rip them when I want music. If Video Game Companies really wanted to slow piracy they need to find a way to make their product preferable to the pirated one. Include content via the web that’s only available with purchased products. Offer frequent bug fixes and additional levels/improvements that is restricted to legal copies. Start showing that pirated copies are a greater risk to users’ systems than legal copies, which as long as DRM exists simply isn’t the case. Encourage people to become involved in communities that are correlated to their legal copies that leaves pirates on the outside. Stop fucking your customers! You’re as stupid as the US Auto maker. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/54 "2008-12-03T09:37:26Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Include content via the web that’s only available with purchased products. Offer frequent bug fixes and additional levels/improvements that is restricted to legal copies. Fuck no. If you want to get on my good side, acting like I should be thankful for fixing your game an undisclosed period of time after I pay for it is not the way to do it. If you want my support, make a game that doesn’t _need_ frequent bug fixes, and doesn’t make me wait two months to play the mission advertised on the box (I’m looking at you, Mass Effect). Not to mention that you’re back to using DRM, even if it’s only there to restrict access to the additional content. > [@](#): > > Start showing that pirated copies are a greater risk to users’ systems than legal copies, which as long as DRM exists simply isn’t the case. How would you suggest they do that? Your software’s lack of risk isn’t something you can draw attention to, and those unskippable PSAs that they stick on DVDs just make people hate you. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/55 "2008-12-03T11:03:09Z")
Video game companies are perfectly aware that DRM does nothing to prevent piracy. DRM is there to prevent second hand sales, not piracy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/56 "2008-12-03T13:41:41Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > If secure-rom bothers you, buy the product than download the DRM free version. Fuck securom and the people that use it. IMO don’t buy anything from them ever. It just encourages it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/57 "2008-12-03T16:25:40Z")
Hell, look at what happened to Sonicwall customers: [License server glitch exposes SonicWall users to e-mail security threats](http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=security_hardware_and_software&articleId=9122160&taxonomyId=145&intsrc=kc_top) A server whose only function was to enforce digital rights management went down and thus disabled services and even locked out paying customers from their own computers. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/58 "2008-12-03T18:13:03Z")
To the people who have fled PC gaming for consoles due to DRM: You guys will be coming back in the near future then? You do realize that console companies are now trying everything to not only prevent piracy, but specially to prevent second hand sale of games, right? They are going to tie games to not just a license as they do for PC games, but to your specific hardware and/or account. You can forget about trading in your old games, you can forget about renting games, and good luck to you if something happens to your disc. The industry has been making some serious noises when it comes to the resale and rent market. As a PC gamer, I’m concerned about some draconian measures being taken currently, but I think pressure from consumers and evolving methods of delivery/DRM will eventually tie licenses to me personally with some sort of flexible system of registering/unregistering the hardware I’m playing on with the license. No need for CD’s, no worry of losing them, though resale might be almost as problematic as it will be for consoles. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/59 "2008-12-03T18:57:39Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Folk law. Which I don’t actually disagree with, but why should I freaking bother? I may have a moral thing about pirating software but considering the headache SecuRom can cause…I understnd why some folks who may not have such morals but would otherwise pay for the software don’t. There is also the significant possibility that the “DRM-free version” may install something more malignant than SecuROM. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014/60 "2008-12-03T19:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] There is also the significant possibility that the “DRM-free version” may install something more malignant than SecuROM. [/quote] It’s true that pirated software is often bait to get people to download trojans. And complicating matters, for some reason the keygens that come with pirated copies are often detected as trojans even if they aren’t. There’s no way to guarantee you won’t get hosed. One advantage with trojans, though, is that they usually try to be unobtrusive as they link your computer to a botnet to scam people out of money for penis enlargers. SecureROM is under no motivation to avoid annoying you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-securom/475014.md?page=4)