# Fucking shitty American beer. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262 "2003-08-24T02:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/61 "2003-08-25T14:12:26Z")
**DoctorJ** , you poor, misguided soul. _No_ beer benefits from a slice of _any_ fruit whatsoever. Especially not any Belgian beers. And don’t try to counter that by offering me Corona and Sol with a slice of lemon: those aren’t beers, OK? There used to be a fantastic white beer from Austin, TX: Celis White. They purchased the old Hoegaerden recipe, so it essentially was pre-commcercial age Hoegaerden. Absolutely gorgeous white beer, that was. I recently learned the brewery went out of business, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/62 "2003-08-25T14:38:12Z")
Chinook [Alaskan Amber Beer](http://gear.alaskanbeer.com/years.html) is the finest brew I’ve ever had in the states although, sadly, unless something’s changed in the last few years it can only be found there. Please advise if anyone knows this to have changed. As distant seconds, I’ll agree with Fat Tire and Sierra Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/63 "2003-08-25T14:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Lets also keep in mind that I’m 6’1 and weigh almost 250. Trying to get a buzz on good beer would cost me a mint! Are you seriously drinking mainly to get a buzz? You might want to address that issue rather than worrying about the cost. **SPOOFE** is right about switching to liquor if you’re drinking mainly to get a buzz. For me, however, I’d much rather pay more for less volume and higher quality than settle for low quality and high quantity. But then, I drink beer because I like it, not to get drunk. **Coldfire** : Pierre Celis’ Wit is now available in Europe brewed by Van Steenberge Brewery. Rumor has it it will be sold in the U.S. under the name Ertvelds Wit. And I totally agree about the addition of fruit slices. Lime is added to Corona to make it even barely palatable. Otherwise it’s undrinkable. In the U.S., Celis Brewery’s brewing equipment and recipe was purchased by [Michigan Brewing Company](http://www.michiganbrewing.com/celis/celis.asp). Unfortunately for me, it seems it is only available in the Austin area. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/64 "2003-08-25T14:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\ ***DoctorJ** , you poor, misguided soul. _No_ beer benefits from a slice of _any_ fruit whatsoever. Especially not any Belgian beers. And don’t try to counter that by offering me Corona and Sol with a slice of lemon: those aren’t beers, OK? > \*\* I believe that wheat beers are traditionally served with a slice of lemon. And Negra Modela is fantastic by itself, but if you add a little slice of lime it becomes even tastier (very small slice of lime, not enough to overpower the beer itself which is a necessity with Corona. I won’t even try Sol). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/65 "2003-08-25T14:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Please. UK beer was good, but nothing to write home about. The best American beers compare quite favorably to the best European beers. > > Although, I don’t know what’s up with that beer and orange thing. Bizarre. \*\* Both of you are wrong. Sam Adams IS a good beer (in fact, one of my favorite lagers) and British beer IS superb. For my money, the UK and Ireland produce the best ales, bitters, stouts, etc, in the world. I don’t like my beer too bubbly, and these countries excel at relatively flat, tasty beer. I have never not enjoyed a pint of any beer in a British pub. The Czech Republic does make the world’s best lagers, though. The original Pilsener Urquell, Budvar (sold under the name of Czechvar in the US. aka “Budweiser”), or Staropramen are all great. They are much better from the tap, as they are less gassy than the bottled versions. Heineken in Amsterdam tastes different than Heineken elsewhere, I swear. I really don’t like Heineken and to me it’s about as good as Beck’s or Foster’s or Budweiser-- all horse piss. But the stuff I (reluctantly) drank in Amsterdam came in a brown bottle and actually had flavor. As for German beers, they’re good, practical beers. I just don’t go out of my way for them, as they tend to be the bubbly lager types. Except during the summer, when a nice German wheat beer (with a wedge of lemon! I’m sorry, **Coldfire** but weizenbiers do benefit from the lemon. I tend towards purism in my alcoholic pursuits, refusing lime and salt with my tequila, but in this case, the fruit stays) does the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/66 "2003-08-25T14:54:49Z")
I also meant to comment on the homebrew angle. **pkbites** mentions that he’s been homebrewing since before some of us were born. While that may be so, it really wasn’t until the early 90s that consistently high-quality ingredients were widely available in the U.S. So perhaps you learned in the dark old days and you need to work on your technique. Try joining a club and to get advice to improve your brewing skills. No, homebrewing is not cheaper than buying cases of Bud. It it is competitively priced when compared to cases of microbrews. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/67 "2003-08-25T15:04:27Z")
No, I am not just boosting my post count. > [@](#): > > [The Lemon Conspiracy](http://www.beeradvocate.com/news/stories_read/351/) > This is one of those subjects that there’s absolutely no gray area. The lines have been drawn and the sides are clearly against each other in the clouded world of wheat beers. > > It’s all about lemon, or no lemon. > > On one side, we have beer drinkers that run in the same group as those people who put salt on their $20 porterhouse steak before they even taste it. A lemon in their wheat beer is a must. Even worse, some go too far and request a slice of lemon in their Belgian White Ale! The Horror! We are not telling you to take sides, but don’t cry when your beer has no head … you can blame it on the lemon wedge and its acidity. > > **On the other side are people who appreciate beer straight up. They lust after that unique yeast flavor that would otherwise be destroyed by a sharp wedge of lemon.** Adding a lemon to Weissbier is **NOT** traditional!!! [Cite](http://www.globalbeer.com/web/body_pages/Texts/Health&Beer/Wheat.html) > [@](#): > > But, lemon kills foam. **Adding the slice of lemon or orange is a German practice, that started only 25 years ago in some trendy bars.** Remember, before that, lemon and orange were not always easy and cheaply available in Northern Europe. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/68 "2003-08-25T15:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pulykamell \* > \*\*Both of you are wrong. Sam Adams IS a good beer (in fact, one of my favorite lagers) and British beer IS superb. For my money, the UK and Ireland produce the best ales, bitters, stouts, etc, in the world. I don’t like my beer too bubbly, and these countries excel at relatively flat, tasty beer. I have never not enjoyed a pint of any beer in a British pub. \*\* Hey, I don’t disagree that British beer is pretty darn good. I enjoy it. But I can get stuff that’s just as good here in the States. That’s not a knock on the Brits, just that both countries produce excellent beer. The only time I hated a British pint was when I was in England and an England friend of mine told me to order some type of beer. He then laughed at me when the bartender brought me a beer mixed with grape soda. That wasn’t good times. I got him back when he visited me here in the States though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/69 "2003-08-25T15:22:13Z")
I’ll chime after looking at the wine thread **pkbites** referenced. A bottle of fruit juice and an OZTOP is not going to make nice wine. Cheap wine (or fruity alcohol) yes; good wine, no. Besides, at $30 for fizzy, slightly fermented fruit juice you’re begging to be disapointed. A simple 4 week wine kits (~$40) make 28 bottles or drinkable wine and it’s consistently good. Not it’s not a $15 dollar wine but it is a nice daily dinner drink. Basically you’re cheap. As for homebrewing basic brew kits produce good beer that I find fills me up more than the typical Bud. Since you’re up in the mid west check out [Wind River Brewing](http://www.windriverbrewing.com/). If you really want to drop costs go all grain, and watch the price fall through the floor. Personally I’m not there yet as I have no time but you may. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/70 "2003-08-25T15:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > In the U.S., Celis Brewery’s brewing equipment and recipe was purchased by [Michigan Brewing Company](http://www.michiganbrewing.com/celis/celis.asp). Unfortunately for me, it seems it is only available in the Austin area. Dammit. I loved that beer, and was wondering what happened to it. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/71 "2003-08-25T15:34:04Z")
I don’t know if there is a store called “Trader Joe’s” in your neck of the woods but you might check. They are all over California and usually have quite a selection of hard to find brews. I have found many reasonably priced beers there that were quite good. They usually have “Fat Weasel” ale, stout, and pale ale, for about $4 a six pack and I find it to be a very tasty beer. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/72 "2003-08-25T15:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > **I believe that wheat beers are traditionally served with a slice of lemon.** All right, _you_ go to Antwerp, and order a Dentergems with a slice of lemon in it. Carefully study the barman’s reaction. Before he punches your lights out, that is. 😉 I see **Homebrew** already provided the necessary facts. Much obliged, sir! ---
**Author:** ![anewthought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@anewthought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anewthought)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/73 "2003-08-25T15:48:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*American beer really fucking sucks. Collectively I mean. But all in all, American beer is piss water. \*\* You are absolutely correct. Guinness is the beer for a real man. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/74 "2003-08-25T15:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Are you seriously drinking mainly to get a buzz? \*\* Nope. I just decided to to add this. If I really wanted to get drunk I’d stick with bourbon or cheap high proof wine. I also want to add to my comment about Schlitz. Now, most of you roll y:rolleyes:ur eyes and hold your nose at the mention of it. But believe it or not, up until the late 70’s it wasn’t that bad. Then the bean counters started making changes to it to save money and turned it into crap. I think this is what has happened to alot of mainstream beers over the years. Did the price of hops & barley go up so much that they had to cut back on them? Those are the ingredients that produce good flavor. Not corn and rice! ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/75 "2003-08-25T17:00:00Z")
Hey, **pkbites** , while you’re visiting the Great American Beer festival here in Denver, as someone else suggested, let me know, and I’ll drag you over to Applejack, a liquor store about five minutes from my house, where you can fill your car up with sixpacks of that expensive beer for around $5-$6 a pack. ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/76 "2003-08-25T17:23:57Z")
Yeungling. Decent American Beer, for the exact same price as the supermacro brews. In PA, Jersey and thereabouts. You should try living in PA for a while if you think you have to spend a lot to buy a good sixer. Here it’s either bar prices ($3.50 a piece), or buy a whole case. Frigging puritans. It’s like they want me to drink more. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/77 "2003-08-25T19:09:23Z")
European beer is good, but U.S. micro-brews kick serious ass. Have you guys tried this stuff? > **[Flying Dog Brewery - Good People Drink Good Beer](https://www.flyingdog.com/)** > > A Maryland craft brewery that views brewing beer as an art form unlike any other. Or this? [http://www.rogue.com](http://www.rogue.com) I’ll take either over some weenie Bass or Newcastle _any_ day. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/78 "2003-08-25T22:19:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rmbnxs \* > \*\*People often mistakenly refer to Anchor Beer as “Anchor Steam.” The name of the company is “Anchor Brewing Company,” and among the beers they make is their version of a traditional style of beer known as “[steam-beer](http://byo.com/feature/106.html).” Anchor makes other varieties of beer than steam-beer, and many other breweries make versions of steam-beer as well… \*\* If one refers to “Anchor Steam”, one is referrig to the “steam” type of beer made by them…I don’t see any mistake. FWIW, Anchor has trademarked “steam beer” so you’re a bit incorrect to suggest that other breweries make steam beer. The generic term for that type of beer is “California Common”. It refers tto a traditional ale type of beer thats been fermented with lager yeast at ale temps. [http://www.anchorbrewing.com/brewery/ourhistory.htm](http://www.anchorbrewing.com/brewery/ourhistory.htm) > [@](#): > > Anchor Brewery inherited a long tradition of brewing what had come to be known as steam beer, one of the quaint old nicknames for beer brewed along the West Coast under primitive conditions and without ice. Today “steam” is a trademark of Anchor Brewing. > **[Steam beer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_common)** > > Steam beer is a highly effervescent beer made by fermenting lager yeasts at warmer ale yeast fermentation temperatures. It has two distinct but related meanings: > Historic steam beer, popularly associated with San Francisco and the U.S. West Coast, was brewed with lager yeast without the use of true refrigeration (by ice or mechanical means). It was an improvised process, originating out of necessity, perhaps as early as the Gold Rush and at least 1860 in Nevada. It was considered a cheap and low... > [@](#): > > California Common beer is a style of beer brewed with lager yeasts but at ale fermentation temperatures. It has its origins as Steam Beer. Steam Beer is a trademark of Anchor Steam Beer brewery of San Francisco. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/79 "2003-08-25T22:52:49Z")
All right, if you wanna talk “House Brews” or “microbrews”, then I will say that the restaurant/brewery chain BJ’s (they’re here in SoCal, don’t know how far they spread) has some pretty damn good house beers (except for the darks, they’re bitter). Maybe the next LADope should be held at a BJ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262/80 "2003-08-25T23:21:31Z")
You’re from Wiscconsin, so it won’t do you much good, but if you ever come to the mid-Atlantic, try Saranac. It’s not too expensive, and they have a good variety of lagers and ales. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-shitty-american-beer/197262.md?page=5)