# Fucking Volkswagen **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930 "2004-07-20T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/41 "2004-07-20T22:51:12Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Plus, mine seems to burn through oil like crazy; I have to have it changed about every 2000 miles instead of 3000. The Jiffy Lube guys tell me that I’m not due for a change yet, and I have to show them that the engine is empty (not just low) on oil, it’s running like crap, and the “change oil” light comes on every time I turn a corner. And I’ve tried just about every grade of oil there is, with no difference. :dubious: You don’t check and add oil when the level sinks? \ o me that is a part of routine maintenance, check the air in the tires, check the oil[add if it needs a bottle] add windshield fluid as required, occasionally check the radiator fluid… But then again, I used to be an inside/outside mechanic, and maintained my own compressor, lathes, mills and whatever else was in my shop… \ I have sitting in my barn and field a 58 beetle, a 64 squareback, a 71 not-a-super-beetle and a 74 westphalia van. The 71 has about 90k original miles on it, and is waiting for us to get the cash together to get the seats reuphoulstered, the squareback still needs tranny work, the 58 and van are waiting for us to get around to renovating them. The only vehicle I am really rabidly addicted to is oddly enough my 79 International Harvester Scout=) Drive what you like, I would love to have a TVR vixen again…or maybe an Abarth Scorpione=) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/42 "2004-07-20T23:12:16Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Plus, mine seems to burn through oil like crazy; I have to have it changed about every 2000 miles instead of 3000. The Jiffy Lube guys tell me that I’m not due for a change yet, and I have to show them that the engine is empty (not just low) on oil, it’s running like crap, and the “change oil” light comes on every time I turn a corner. And I’ve tried just about every grade of oil there is, with no difference. Jiffy Lube might be what’s causing your oil problem, they sometimes don’t put everything back where it belongs. Your problem might be a loose drain plug. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/43 "2004-07-20T23:45:01Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > :dubious: You don’t check and add oil when the level sinks? \ o me that is a part of routine maintenance, check the air in the tires, check the oil[add if it needs a bottle] add windshield fluid as required, occasionally check the radiator fluid… Consuming oil at that rate is excessive. I’d expect a blue haze behind that car if it’s burning what I’m guessing to be close to two quarts per 1000 miles. Compare that to our '95 Jeep with 135,000 miles - it loses about half a quart every 3000 miles. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/44 "2004-07-21T00:06:03Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Sigh, I miss my 1963 **Karmen Ghia**. Body finally corroded off in the mid eighties but the drive train was just fine. Do you mean a **Karmann** Ghia? > [@Coldfire](#): > > Emotional commitment… nah. Oh well, sure, a little. VW is one of the brands that has a pretty loyal fan base over here. Talking cars with a VW driver can almost seem akin to talking religion with a Baptist priest: they’ll accept no criticism of their deity. And while I can respect that with regard to a religion, I think it’s quite insane when talking about cars. Bash my garlic mobile all you want, that’s cool. It sure has its faults, like any other car. What pisses me off is people still maintaining VW make reliable cars, when all the stats show otherwise. And then speak of how affordable they are, because they depreciate less than French (Or Italian, or British, or Japanese…) cars. Yeah, sure buddy. But what you save in depreciation, you spend twice in repairs. And since I bought my cheese eating surrender Citroën second hand, I consider depreciation a good thing, anyway. 😃 **Coldfire** , you don’t live in Greece, do you? 😃 I am member in a Greek automotive message board and I see that crap all the time. For example, someone pointed out that a VW Golf 1.6 costs the same as an Opel Astra **1.8** and the Astra is much better equipped. VW fanatics started their usual ranting about reliability, depreciation, etc. When these arguments were refuted, their last line of defence was “_But people respect you more if you drive a Golf_” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/45 "2004-07-21T00:14:58Z")
Ah yes, the “status” argument! The last refuge of the overpaying VW-scoundrel. Do they even know what the _Volks_ part stands for? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/46 "2004-07-21T01:00:15Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Plus, mine seems to burn through oil like crazy; I have to have it changed about every 2000 miles instead of 3000. The Jiffy Lube guys tell me that I’m not due for a change yet, and I have to show them that the engine is empty (not just low) on oil, it’s running like crap, and the “change oil” light comes on every time I turn a corner. Seconding what **Jeff Olsen** already said. Our '97 Jetta had an oil drain plug that was yellow. When last I spoke to the guys at the garage, they said that Jiffy Lube, Lube-in-a-Sec, I-gotcher-lube-rite-here type places quite often paint the oil cap after they’ve changed fluids. Then, to cap it off, they threw the car up on the rack and discovered that the plug had been stripped out. And I’ve already noted that I wanna stay way the hell away from a '99 Jetta. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/47 "2004-07-21T01:40:56Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Do you mean a **Karmann** Ghia? Same thing. Internet surfing responds to both names. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/48 "2004-07-21T01:47:06Z")
“One is my name. The other is not.” - Commander Data ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/49 "2004-07-21T01:56:27Z")
Current VWs are great if you maintain them properly. I’ve had a 2001 Jetta TDI (That’s diesel) that has been great to me with little problems. Ok brake pads needed to be changed, but that’s normal with the way I drive 😉 Anyway the O2 sensors are notorius and the ones that they use are horrible. That’s why I use a Mercedes O2 sensor on mine and it works fine. Its essentially the same but built by another company. Other than that, no problems other than wear and tear. I change the oil every 10,000 miles 😃 yep, a diesel with synthetic can go that long! Plus the 50 MPG gas mileage isnt’ bad either. VW isn’t what it used to be. If you want reliable pick up a Japanese import. If you want something special, pick up a VW, which offers a lot of luxury for the money. But make sure that you can maintain it yourself or have competent people to maintain it, because if not it will suck. I dont’ know much about the 99 year, but it was when they came out with the newest models. I love my Jetta TDI, but I am sorry you have had bad luck. I think the main problem is that people buy them today thinking that they are these indestructible machines or yesteryear but they are not. They are just as difficult as your typical German import except they are less expensive. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/50 "2004-07-21T02:22:52Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > Ah yes, the “status” argument! The last refuge of the overpaying VW-scoundrel. > > Do they even know what the _Volks_ part stands for? 🙂 Last I knew, Folks, people, population in general. Humanity, if you want to get general. You want it renamed to proletariatwagon? Peoplecar? Hominidmobile? And yes, it was a result of HItler wanting a small economical vehicle for the proto german family. If he had been a french dictator, it could have been voiture de famille=) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/51 "2004-07-21T02:57:08Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Last I knew, Folks, people, population in general. Humanity, if you want to get general. > > You want it renamed to proletariatwagon? Peoplecar? Hominidmobile? More like “Trophäewagen”. Or rather that’s his impression of what the overpaying VW-scoundrels think. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/52 "2004-07-21T07:55:38Z")
Spot on, Jeff. The cheapest VW on the market today over here is a Lupo 1.0 with a dazzling 50 BHP. It costs about €11,500 when all is said and done. That’s about $14,000. [You tell me if you’d pay that kind of money for a matchbox.](http://www.autopointsales.co.uk/V877KKN.jpg) But that’s not the worst part. The worst part is the models constantly “evolving” into a higher class. The Golf used to be VW’s mini, and the Golf I and II were fantastic cars. But they got fatter and fatter. First VW introcuded the Polo to take the place of the old Golf (I think a new Polo is actually a lot larger than a Golf I), and now there’s the Lupo, because the Polo is essentually where the Golf once was. The Golf V, meanwhile, has moved into entirely different regions. A base 1.4 can be at your door for almost €19,000, or almost $23,000. For that money, you get a dizzying 75 BHP that will have to tow 1129 kilograms. Hot hatch, my arse - that’s a fat car with a tiny engine. To give you an idea, my Citroën Xsara (which is in the same class as the Golf, sizewise) is a 2.0 diesel with climate control, everything electric, top-of-the-line. Weighs about the same, but has 15 BHP more, and it’s a diesel, so it’s got a hell of a lot more torque. If you want one new today, it’s yours for €21,000. Only slightly more than that base, bare, Golf V. Granted, cars are more expensive here than in America, but it’s just to give you an idea of how much VW has lost its grip on reality. I won’t even begin to explain what a decent Golf diesel costs, or worse, what a more _expensive_ VW would set you back. Ugh. But the cracks are beginning to show: after being the runner up behind Opel for nigh on 30 years, VW is now finally losing market share. It’s currently the 5th selling brand in the Netherlands, and has been passed by Renault and Peugeot. **Merkwurdigliebe** , I’ve never understood the American obsession with oil changes, myself. My HDI engine gets new oil once a year, when it gets its servicing. That’s after 20,000 carefree kilometers. I’ll check the amount before I take a long trip, but that’s maybe 3 times a year. And it never needs additional oil. **grienspace** , I’d wager that “Karmen Ghia” is most likely a porn star, if that phrase got any hits on Google. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/53 "2004-07-21T07:59:27Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > > [@dog80](#): > > > > Do you mean a **Karmann** Ghia? > > Same thing. Internet surfing responds to both names. **Karmann** is a german company that specializes in car frames. **Karmen** is probably a mis-pronounciation that caught on. You know, fighting ignorance and all that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/54 "2004-07-21T08:16:21Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > Spot on, Jeff. The cheapest VW on the market today over here is a Lupo 1.0 with a dazzling 50 BHP. It costs about €11,500 when all is said and done. That’s about $14,000. In Greece the cheapest VW is the Polo. I know, it defies logic, but the Lupo is more expensive than the Polo :smack: See here: [http://www.vw.gr/site/pricelist/pricelistvw.pdf](http://www.vw.gr/site/pricelist/pricelistvw.pdf) (Warning! PDF) ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/55 "2004-07-21T08:29:46Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Plus, mine seems to burn through oil like crazy; I have to have it changed about every 2000 miles instead of 3000. The Jiffy Lube guys tell me that I’m not due for a change yet, and I have to show them that the engine is empty (not just low) on oil, it’s running like crap, and the “change oil” light comes on every time I turn a corner. And I’ve tried just about every grade of oil there is, with no difference. Um, you know you can _add_ oil, right? If it gets low on oil, it doesn’t mean it’s time to _change_ the oil; it means it’s time to _add_ oil. Also, there’s no such thing as a “change oil” light (or at least not in the sense you are describing). If the oil light comes on, it means you let it get seriously too low on oil. Mechanics call that the “idiot light”, because you’re never supposed to let the oil level get low enough for that light to come on. It indicates a major problem. If you actually did let the oil level get low enough for the engine to “run like crap”, you most likely destroyed the engine. On another note, here are the problems I’ve had with my 2001 Jetta turbo (75,000 miles) so far: -Possible oil leak, or maybe just spilled oil dripping down after oil changes? Oil pan was re-sealed by dealer. No cost to me. -Window holder broke; wouldn’t roll back up after rolling down. Fixed by dealer; no charge. -Replaced turbo unit; no charge. -Coolant leak at turbo due to mechanic’s mistake. Charged $75 diagnostic fee because I didn’t take it to the same dealer location. Went to original location; fixed for free. -Defective temperature sensor. Is a known defect, but not a recall.:rolleyes: Fixed it myself; part only cost $7.50. -Ignition coil-packs replaced. Recall item; free of charge. -Recall on brake-light switch. -Check engine light has come on 10-15 times since I bought the car. Twice because of above problems. Sometimes for no particular reason. -Manual transmission has been noisy since I bought it. VW says it’s “normal”, but I’m skeptical. Hasn’t failed yet, though. -Squeaking noise from front suspension. Haven’t had it looked at. -Plastic latch on crappy cheap armrest compartment broke. So it hasn’t cost me too much in repairs so far [knock wood]. The service is awful though. They pretend to make “appointments” for service, but it really ends up being first come, first served, and I suspect that they do the paying customers first and leave the warranty stuff for last. For example, the coil packs should have taken about a half hour or less; it’s a very simple procedure. I took the car in at 9:00 am, and didn’t get it back until 5:30, even though they said they’d try to have it done by noon. Obviously, they didn’t even _start_ on it for 6 or 7 hours. And I have had times when they didn’t even get around to looking at the car _at all_ the entire day, and then balked at giving me a rental to get home. And they’re extremely poor at answering the phone, or returning calls. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/56 "2004-07-21T09:42:59Z")
Idiot light, my ass. I don’t have to be a programmer to use my PC, and I shouldn’t be expected to be a mechanic to use my car. An average modern car can go on the same oil for at least 7,000 miles or so (or a lot more, as in my case), but more importantly, an almost new car cannot be expected to lose a dangerously high amount of oil in just 2,000 miles. That’s plain ridiculous. Volkswagen’s fault, not **SolGrundy** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/57 "2004-07-21T09:52:27Z")
It’s in the manual. Nominal oil loss for VWs is 1 or 1.5 liters per 1000km. That’s 1/3-1/2 of the oil sump capacity :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/58 "2004-07-21T09:59:05Z")
For real?? Is that for all engines, or just diesel ones? I’ve noticed some black and blue clouds coming out of hard accelerating TDI’s, but 1.5 liters per 1000 clicks is fucking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/59 "2004-07-21T10:08:54Z")
Its for petrol engines. I had posted a GQ thread about it: [Car question: VW Golf IV burns a lot of oil!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=247213) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930/60 "2004-07-21T13:17:10Z")
I was intrigued by VWs back in the 1950s—a cousin had a Beetle with semaphore turn signals. That little car really lit me up for some reason. My father promised me one for my senior year in high school, but had a disagreement with the VW dealer and bought me a 1959 Renault Dauphine instead. I had to do a LOT of tinkering to keep the thing running, but the main problem was with educating service station personnel. The gasonline filler cap was in the engine compartment, about two inches to the right of the coolant filler cap. Neither one was well identified, or they might have been identified in French, I don’t remember. On more than one occassion I very nearly got a radiator full of gasoline. The thing had one saving grace during my college days—the front end luggage compartment made one hell of an ice chest. That car was in great demand for beer busts. In later years, I made the horrible mistake of buying a brand spanking new 1978 Honda Hatchback Accord which was absolutely the very worst automobile I have ever owned. In fact, it was the worst automobile a lot of people ever owned. Out of the lists of the worlds worst cars, I’ve owned two. I guess that is some sort of distinction, but one I could do without. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-volkswagen/255930.md?page=4)