# Fucking Yankees **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2001, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073 "2001-11-02T05:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/21 "2001-11-02T13:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OneChance \* > **You should be bitching about the stupidfuck D’backs closer, Yum-Yum Kim or whatever the fuck his name is. He fucked it up two days in a row, and if Brenley puts him back out there again he’s dumber than shit and deserves to lose.** Somewhere, Armando Benitez is smiling. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/22 "2001-11-02T14:18:44Z")
Is someone here intimating that I am a fair weather Yankee fan? Me, who grew up on The Grand Concourse and 170th Street. Who has Dave Rhigetti, Craig Nettles and Roy White’s autographs-- that I got when I was 10-- on 3 different caps? Who used to listen to Yankee games on the radio while doing homework all through the '70’s and ‘80’s. Who had faith even when the freakin’ Mets were finishing ahead of them in the standings? Fuck off, if you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Yanks are the best team in baseball. 4 World Series in the last 5 years. The most ALC’s and World Series wins out of anybody, ever. Now go cry in your beer about how nobody else has got a chance because the fix is in, or the Yankees bought the series. Cry and cry and cry. Boo hoo. Yea, it must suck to be to be you. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/23 "2001-11-02T14:20:20Z")
I don’t care if the Yankees have 1,742,936 championships, if any city ever really needed a World Series championship to celebrate, New York City qualifies this year. I hope the Yankees win their 4th championship, and the Giants or Jets win the Super Bowl, and the Rangers or Islanders win the Stanley Cup. Geez, give poor New York City one great sports year. The rest of the year hasn’t been so good, or hadn’t you heard? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/24 "2001-11-02T14:51:42Z")
Look, I’ve got nothing against the Yankees winning the World Series in any given year, or even 4 out of 5. Joe Torre is a great manager and seems like a decent enough guy, Steinbrenner is not the jerk he once was, I know he does a lot of good in the community, etc. And they have some great players and good people on the team as well. Hell, I’ll even concede that Yankees fan are some of the best, most knowlegable fans in baseball. But… This is NOT GOOD for baseball. I can’t tell you how much apathy reigns here in Cincinnati, a city that also has saavy fans and a great baseball tradition, because they just cannot afford to compete with the New Yorks, Atlantas, Bostons, et al. Sure, they can occasionaly scratch together a team good enough to compete a bit, but when they do develop some good young talent, they end up having to sell it off to the Yankees to shore up other areas. And it never lasts. Now, I am not particularly a Cincinnati fan, and I know that many of their woes were brought on by former management, but there is just not the marketing and broadcasts rights in most cities to compete with the New York market. Baseball does need to contract its markets given its current structure, they need to consider a salary cap and they need to consider revenue sharing. This way when the Yankees take four out of five Series at least everyone will believe that it was a level playing field. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/25 "2001-11-02T14:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > **Now go cry in your beer about how nobody else has got a chance because the fix is in, or the Yankees bought the series.** Um, actually, I do know what I’m talking about, and yes, the Yankees do buy their World Series or get bad calls in order to win them. No team in baseball spends as much as the Yankees. None. That’s why they can afford to buy whatever they need. And that’s why they can afford to keep whatever talent comes up through their farm system. That’s the only reason why the Yankees win. You may see that as sour grapes, but whatever, it doesn’t change the fact that the Yankees buy their Series rings. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/26 "2001-11-02T15:05:59Z")
So I guess the Texas Ranger’s money wasn’t green enough to buy them a series. Yeah, the fix is in. I heard the league puts in a special “Yankee ball” during the 9th innings of home games. The special ball that gets hit out of the park to insure a Yankee win. But I understand. Freud talked about this pennant envy thing. I guess it was bad for baseball in D’Maggio and Mantle were winning all those World Series. Yeup, almost destroyed baseball as we know it. The Yanks should just stop trying to win, for the good of baseball. Yeah, that’s it. Crybabies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/27 "2001-11-02T15:16:19Z")
This just makes it interesting. Johnson and Schilling pitch the next two games. If Johnson wins vs. Pettite(?), then it’s Schilling vs. Clements(?) Musina(?) Some dumb-fuck-lucky-ass minor-leaguer-who-will-pitch-a-no-hitter-for-the-pull-it-out-of-your-ass-Yankees(?) Unbelievable. 2 nights in a row I go to bed with Arizona up multiple runs going into the 9th, and they lose both games. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/28 "2001-11-02T15:16:42Z")
**Biggirl** do you even know what you are talking about? The Yankees 2001 payroll was $109,791,893. The Texas Rangers 2001 payroll was $88,504,421. It’s not a question of the Rangers money being as green, it has to do with the fact that the YANKEES SPEND MORE!!! I don’t have a problem with the Yankees doing whatever they can to win the World Series. I’m simply saying recognize the fact that one of the MAJOR reasons that they keep winning is that they consistently have the highest payroll in the major leagues. They also have a considerable amount of luck and a tremendous scouting staff (which goes with being able to spend more). This is why we can reasonably infer that the Yankees buy their Series rings. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/29 "2001-11-02T15:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > > \*\*But I understand. It sucks when the best team in baseball isn’t your team. \*\* > > I’ll bet you do, sincec by all the standard objective measures, the best team in baseball – the Mariners – is watching the World Series at home this year. > > “Winner of the World Series” != “best team in baseball” > > BTW, the Indians have apparently developed a corollary to the traditional rule about ex-Cubs spreading their non-Series-winning poison to other teams: No team with an ex-Indian on the mound can win the World Series. Brian Anderson, Albie Lopez, Greg Swindell . . . \*\* Mark Grace is a starter on Arizona, and you can’t be any more ex-Cub than he is. He sent an open letter to Cubs fans saying “Wish you were here”, for Christ’s sakes. So I think the ex-Cub rule may still hold if the Yankees can get by Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/30 "2001-11-02T15:34:20Z")
Since this is the pit, I’ll start by agreeing with the Fuck the Yankees sentiment. However, the only thing that bugs me more than the Yankees winning is the Yankees fans who refuse to face facts that a major, major MAJOR reason they keep winning is **THEY PAY FOR IT**. (Not to quibble, Neuro, but I thought they’re salary this year is actually closer to $112 Million. Not to mention they have 4 out the 24 players making more than 10 million a year, their average salary is $1.4 million a year more than the MLB average.) And the only thing worse than those fans, are those kind of fans like Biggirl, who, in the midst of their delusion, consider anyone who points out the fucking FACTS, call everyone else crybabies. Listen to blur for a second Biggirl, you just may learn something. All that being said: this year, fine, whoopee for New Yorkers, I only wish it was the fucking Mets. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/31 "2001-11-02T15:35:24Z")
**Neurotik** It’s not helping the Rangers that they are spending about 25% of their salary dollars on **one guy!** That’s part of what has helped the Yankees, yes they spend more than just about everyone else, but they also have been spending wisely. The Rangers could’ve been better with the money they spent, if they were smarter about it. Also remember, the Yanks have been in lots of trouble this post season. A couple of plays not going their way and they lose in the first round, or the second round, or the WS. It was 2 swings of the bat with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th that turned losses into wins. If those swings are off by a 1/4 inch, the Series is over. It isn’t as if they are blowing everyone away every game, they are clawing and scratching for each win. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/32 "2001-11-02T15:44:35Z")
And Annie, let’s not forget it was all of America that was attacked on 9/11. The 3rd plane plowed into Washington, the 4th into Pennsylvania. States across the US lost citizens. All of us were outraged, saddened, and deeply affected. New York doesn’t need the success of a baseball team to recover. They should take enormous pride in the way they’ve responded to the crisis, the heroism of their fire and police departments, the heroism of their ordinary people. That to me would help me get back on track much, much more than whether or not a dynasty endures. Arizona’s done what it took to get this far. They’ve got just as much right as anyone to win the prize. “Giving” any sporting competition away diminishes it’s value and is completely contradictory to the very idea of sport. ---
**Author:** ![Skelji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Skelji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skelji)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/33 "2001-11-02T15:47:33Z")
I understand the sour grapes, and frankly, if I weren’t a lifelong Yankee fan, I’d probably hate them too. However, that doesn’t change one simple fact: **having a high payroll does not guarantee winning shit.** The players still have to go out and get it done, and the Yankees have proven that time after time after time. High payroll? The Red Sox and Dodgers had around the same payroll as the Yankees. The Mets, Indians, Braves, and Rangers were not that far behind, either. Where are they? Probably booking tee times. Did the A’s lose because their payroll wasn’t high enough? Are the Diamondbacks playing for charity? Do any of you actually think that there are owners of _any_ sports teams that are destitute? It’s a business, and if it wasn’t profitable, they’d sell! Most of these owners have made their billions elsewhere, and the team is just another asset. It’s not a matter of _having_ the money to spend, it’s _choosing_ to spend it, and spend it wisely. The Chicago Sun Times, AOL, Budweiser, Peter Angelos, Tom Hicks, and all the other team owners have money. **What’s the problem?** The core of this Yankee team is right out of the farm system. The rest was built with trades, using players from the farm system. Can they afford to keep their players? Sure. Winning generates revenue, which pays for players, which in turn generates more revenue. Put a winning team on the field, and you’ll find that fans will come out to the park and generate attendance revenue. (Well, at least Yankee fans will, but I guess the Great Conspiracy is behind that, too.) Yankee fans watch games on TV, increasing ratings, thereby generating revenue from broadcast rights. People all over the world buy Yankee merchandise, generating even more revenue. The Yankee ownership takes that and spends it on the team. It’s called Smart Business. But once again, **the players still have to produce to win.** The front office has to make the right moves. The scouts have to be able to spot young, raw talent. And so far, all the parts have worked together. As a team. Nobody has handed the Yankees anything. Whatever they’ve won, they’ve earned. Unless someone else steps up and takes the title away, the Yankees will win again. What do you expect them to do, roll over and die? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/34 "2001-11-02T15:48:09Z")
[Player payrolls according to ESPN](http://espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouses/salaries/cin.html) 1. Yankees $109,791,893 $3,541,674 2. Red Sox $109,558,908 $3,423,716 3. Dodgers $108,980,952 $3,757,964 4. Mets $93,174,428 $3,327,658 5. Indians $91,974,979 $3,065,833 6. Braves $91,851,687 $2,962,958 7. Rangers $88,504,421 $2,854,981 8. D-Backs $81,206,513 $2,900,233 9. Cardinals $77,270,855 $2,664,512 10. Blue Jays $75,798,500 $2,707,089 11. Mariners $75,652,500 $2,701,875 12. Orioles $72,426,328 $2,497,460 13. Rockies $71,068,000 $2,632,148 14. Cubs $64,015,833 $2,462,147 15. Giants $63,332,667 $2,345,654 16. White Sox $62,363,000 $2,309,741 17. Astros $60,382,667 $2,236,395 18. Devil Rays $54,951,602 $2,035,245 19. Pirates $52,698,333 $1,699,946 20. Tigers $49,831,167 $1,779,685 21. Angels $46,568,180 $1,502,199 22. Reds $45,227,882 $1,739,534 23. Brewers $43,089,333 $1,595,901 24. Phillies $41,664,167 $1,602,468 25. Padres $38,333,117 $1,419,745 26. Royals $35,643,000 $1,229,069 27. Marlins $35,504,167 $1,183,472 28. Expos $34,774,500 $1,159,150 29. Athletics $33,810,750 $1,252,250 30. Twins $24,810,750 $901,852 Yea, I guess that extra $240,000 kept the Red Sox and the Dodgers out of the World Series. The salary disparity also is what kept the A’s out of the playoffs, right? Look, I have nothing against a salary cap, but you cannot attribute the Yankee success to the fact that there is no salary cap. If we followed that reasoning, why ain’t the Yankees beating the Dodgers this World Series? Crybaby. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/35 "2001-11-02T16:04:49Z")
I’m going to stay out of the whole “fix is in” debate, mostly because I think saying it’s asinine. Even if Kim grooved a ball or two, Martinez, Jeter and Brosius still had to hit the damn thing. And that IS hard to do. That said, I hate the Yankees. It’s not that it’s bad for baseball, IMHO. It’s that watching the Yankees in the Series every single year is _boring_. Especially when you’re not a fan of that team. It’s like watching the Jordan-era Bulls win the NBA title year after year. And, to be honest, as a Cubs fan, I relish the chance for them to win the Series. But if it started happening year after year, I’d grow weary of it then, too. The best Word Series in recent memory was the Marlins/Indians in 1997. That one could legitimately have gone either way. I’m hoping for a Diamondbacks championship. Not because I hate the Yankees (even though I do). But because there’s no suspense. There’s no wonder. The question is evolving from “who will win the Series this year” to “who will the Yankees beat this year?” As I said, it’s _boring_. And I’m a diehard baseball fan. If Brenly’s as old-school as he says he is (and here I’m thinking of bunting to break up a perfect game), why doesn’t he have his pitchers start drilling some of the hitters? I know that they’d get warned, and possibly ejected. But have Kim drill Martinez. Maybe we can be lucky enough that he knocks Jeter out of the game, or something. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@PatrickM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickM)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/36 "2001-11-02T16:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blur \* > \*\*I’m a die hard Yankee fan, and this post season has been incredible. > > \*\* To me, an Indians’ fan, it is impossible to believe that there there can be any such thing as a “die hard” Yankee fan. It’s like a fat guy complaining about how hungry he is. I’ll take you to Jacobs Field, and show you pictures of Joe Charboneau playing in dearly departed Cleveland Municipal Stadium and then maybe you’ll understand what it means to be a diehard fan. Because no Yankee fan has ever been scarred enough to be considered a die hard fan. You think lasting all the way from 1978 to 1996, or from 1963 to 1977, without the Yankees winning the World Series is true sports suffering? Bah! Go Diamondbacks! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/37 "2001-11-02T16:14:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Biggirl_ > > Other teams have spent more than the Yanks Huh? Your own cite disproves your previous post. Dire, I agree completely that money doesn’t GUARANTEE success, but it does play a major part. The Yankees are a great team, and they spend their tons of money very wisely. A major part of success in the post-season is having players who have been there before. The Yankees can afford to keep those players around, and go get the major free agents to help them win. Sour Grapes…Yeah, maybe, but when the Yankees spend 2.5 times what my team does, It’s not fair. MLB needs revenue scaring and a salary cap to keep it competitive. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/38 "2001-11-02T16:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > > So I guess the Texas Ranger’s money wasn’t green enough to buy them a series. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > > > > **Biggirl** do you even know what you are talking about? The Yankees 2001 payroll was $109,791,893. The Texas Rangers 2001 payroll was $88,504,421. Worth noting is that difference (which, for the sake of clarity, We’ll call $20mil) is almost exactly what the Yanks are paying for Clemens and Mussina. Think the Rangers would have been in the running if they had those two? Yeah, I do too. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/39 "2001-11-02T17:16:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > Worth noting is that difference (which, for the sake of clarity, We’ll call $20mil) is almost exactly what the Yanks are paying for Clemens and Mussina. > > Think the Rangers would have been in the running if they had those two? > > Yeah, I do too. \*\* You think the Rangers could have beat the Yanks with these two. Sure, you can hope. You see the Yanks are what used to be commonly known as a team. A team with very good players that management pays well. A team in which a large percent of the starters _actually came from within the Yankee system_ or has that slipped everyone’s notice? Rivera, Jeter, Williams, Posada, Soriano, Pettite and Mendoza. We’ve got Spencer that we paid _soooo_ much money for. Oh yeah and O’Neal. Everybody in the league was dying to pay tons of money for him, but the Yanks selfishly paid him more than anyone else could afford to. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073/40 "2001-11-02T17:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\* > > You think the Rangers could have beat the Yanks with these two. Sure, you can hope.]\*\* Well, you _do_ have to admit that the bane of the Rangers this year was their pitching staff. Had they had to top of the line startes like Mussina and Clemons, they would have fared considerably better than they did. Since you’re a myopic Yankees fan, it should be no problem for you to admit that ANY team with those two pitchers would be better than they are without them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fucking-yankees/91073.md?page=3)