# Fuckwit Ashcroft Bludgeons Justice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859 "2003-08-08T17:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/21 "2003-08-08T20:49:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CTB \* > \*\*Is it within the realm of the executive or legislative branch to be concerned with sentncing practices? That seems to be clearly in the judiciary, but again, IANACS. \*\* It is. Even though judges tend to have discretion in sentencing, laws criminalizing things usually include sentencing guidelines…ie. “Not more than 10 nor less than 5 years”. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/22 "2003-08-08T21:02:17Z")
Don’t we already have more people in jail than the rest of the world combined? Seems like we should be backing off on sentencing rather than becoming more strict. If congress has a question about how courts are sentencing they already have a tool to use (the Government Accounting Office), and don’t need the DOJ to do the work. Bob ---
**Author:** ![CTB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@CTB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTB)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/23 "2003-08-08T21:04:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*It is. Even though judges tend to have discretion in sentencing, laws criminalizing things usually include sentencing guidelines…ie. “Not more than 10 nor less than 5 years”. \*\* OK, so the legislature can set a range of choices from which the judicial can select, but what business do they have ensuring that only the maximum is selcted. Note, that they are claiming this is for consistency, and yet the only people being reported are those who tend towards someting other than the maximum punishment. The legislature has alreay been shorn of unnecessary scrotal appendages, but this appears to be an attempt to do the same to the judicial, and as such should be stringly debated if not immediately opposed. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/24 "2003-08-08T21:13:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t we already have more people in jail than the rest of the world combined? I rather doubt that. Strongly. > [@](#): > > Seems like we should be backing off on sentencing rather than becoming more strict. No, what we should be doing is simply decriminalizing a whole bunch of stuff, not reducing sentences. In fact, sentences for violent crime where the perpetrator can be shown to be reasonably likely to commit more violent crime, should, in my unstudied opinion, be greatly increased. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/25 "2003-08-08T21:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*I won’t even pretend that I understand this. Come again? \*\* A quick Yahoo brought up this story. There are other related articles from other sources, but I’ll let you do the legwork. [http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/01/27/news/local/5025024.htm](http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/01/27/news/local/5025024.htm) ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/26 "2003-08-08T21:27:26Z")
**Uncle Beer** is right. We do have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country. A total of about 2 million people in prison, giving us a ratio of 702 prisoner per 100,000 population. That’s a lot, but not more than everyone else put together. [Cite.](http://www.charleston.net/stories/060103/wor_01jailbirds.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/27 "2003-08-08T21:31:22Z")
Thanks, **Shelbo**. The percentage makes sense. And, although I worded it wrongly, I agree on the decrimilization as opposed to reducing sentences; although possibly a combination might be possible. Bob ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/28 "2003-08-08T21:42:42Z")
I’m no Ashcroft fan, but more dangerous to civil liberties than he’ll ever be is stupid motherfuckers who complain when an attorney general collects data with an eye towards compliance with a specific legislative mandate from Congress. The ones who make that complaint even when the reason is in a news story they just read are the stupidest. You are just such a stupid motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Peter\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/29 "2003-08-08T22:15:39Z")
:eek: > [@](#): > > “It’s telling judges from the get-go, 'If you want to depart that you will be put on a list and you will be watched,”’ said Ryan King, I always thought “The List” was hyperbole. > [@](#): > > “It is an effort to make sure that someone who is convicted of a crime in California is treated no differently than a person who is convicted of the exact same crime in Massachusetts,” Corallo said Isn’t that one of the reasons **why** we have states, and state legislatures? Are the individual states judicial systems really obliged to follow federal sentencing guidelines for non-federal crimes¿ ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/30 "2003-08-08T22:16:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*I’m no Ashcroft fan, but more dangerous to civil liberties than he’ll ever be is stupid motherfuckers who complain when an attorney general collects data with an eye towards compliance with a specific legislative mandate from Congress. The ones who make that complaint even when the reason is in a news story they just read are the stupidest. You are just such a stupid motherfucker. \*\* I’m going to be generous and assume that you are directing that statement to the populace in general, and are not directing it at me. Your position of a moderator in no way gives you lattitude for unprovoked personal attack against a poster on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/31 "2003-08-08T22:28:29Z")
**Chefguy** , while I’d be more inclined to agree with you than with **Manhattan** in the particular instance of Ashcroft listing judges, **Manny** _can_ disagree, and even call you a motherfucker in the Pit. So can any other poster: **Manhattan** was obviously not acting as a moderator. Whether an insult is out of line will be judged on a case-by-case basis. I’d say this one was pretty mild. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/32 "2003-08-08T22:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*I’m no Ashcroft fan, but more dangerous to civil liberties than he’ll ever be is stupid motherfuckers who complain when an attorney general collects data with an eye towards compliance with a specific legislative mandate from Congress. The ones who make that complaint even when the reason is in a news story they just read are the stupidest. You are just such a stupid motherfucker. \*\* Que? I don’t follow this reasoning. How are they affecting anyone’s civil liberties by bitching? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/33 "2003-08-08T23:14:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\ ***Chefguy** , while I’d be more inclined to agree with you than with **Manhattan** in the particular instance of Ashcroft listing judges, **Manny** _can_ disagree, and even call you a motherfucker in the Pit. So can any other poster: **Manhattan** was obviously not acting as a moderator. > > Whether an insult is out of line will be judged on a case-by-case basis. I’d say this one was pretty mild. \*\* So it would appear that I have the wrong pin-headed fuckwit in the thread title? Damn, had I but known. It seems to be the domain of the ill-informed and ill-equipped to attack the messenger rather than the message. **manhattan** , I’ll match brainpower with you anytime. Your characterization of me as “stupid” is inappropriate and unfounded. Your characterization of me as a “motherfucker” is only true in the sense that your mother happened to be standing on that particular corner at that particular time. “Whoremaster” may have been a better choice of words in this instance. We can continue in this vein, or you can get back to the message, but I suspect that you’re out of gas intellectually, so will brace myself for another blast. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/34 "2003-08-08T23:20:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > Que? I don’t follow this reasoning. How are they affecting anyone’s civil liberties by bitching? It’s probably more of that \*\*december-\*\*style choplogic, like claiming that [criticizing the Bush Administration aids terrorists.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202730) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/35 "2003-08-08T23:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Que? I don’t follow this reasoning. How are they affecting anyone’s civil liberties by bitching? > > Enjoy, > Steven \*\* Because the AG is collecting the data to ensure that laws passed by Congress are being enforced. I’m sure you’d want the AG to make sure civil rights laws are enforced, for example, why not sentencing laws, as well? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/36 "2003-08-09T00:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > **manhattan** , I’ll match brainpower with you anytime. Your characterization of me as “stupid” is inappropriate and unfounded. Right, let me have a go (and please, keep your mother away from me. My hands are cracked so much they’re bleeding from the dry skin I got last time from having to take all that penicillin). 1. “Noted heap of souless putrescent monkey meat John Ashcroft announced that he wants the Justice Department to report any judges who hand down less than the recommended sentence for crimes.” IE this is Ashcroft’s doing. 2. " The memo, first reported by The Wall Street Journal, is part of a Justice Department effort to implement a law passed by Congress earlier this year intended to bring even greater uniformity to federal prison sentences." From the article you so dutifully cited in the OP. IE this is, in fact, _not_ Ashcroft’s idea but the Justice Department doing its job (that job, in this case, being following what Congress told it to do). ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/37 "2003-08-09T01:21:28Z")
> [@](#): > > GaWd & Bayonet Were Ashcroft not what he is, this action would probably not cause a ripple. As it is, he was and is the architect of Patriot Acts I & II. He saw opportunity in 9/11 and pounced on it with one of the most egregious pieces of law ever introduced to Congress, betting rightly that an outraged and wounded country would accept it with nary a whimper. He espouses the invasion of privacy merely for information’s sake, and nearly any means to reach an end. For me and many others, this is an ominous trend and an unacceptable trampling of the basic freedoms our country is based upon. I’m not going to argue with you on this, but the simple fact is that while he may have written these poorly thought out and civil liberty-robbing decrees, YOUR congresspeople voted “Aye” on them. He’s scum, but we the people are allowing him to run roughshod over our liberties by not calling our congresspeople out. This latest is for Federal cases ONLY. Though I have to say I support any decriminalization and/or Judicial sentence-reduction for those crimes which have a ridiculous term assigned them. Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/38 "2003-08-09T01:27:22Z")
> [@](#): > > GaWd & Bayonet Were Ashcroft not what he is, this action would probably not cause a ripple. As it is, he was and is the architect of Patriot Acts I & II. He saw opportunity in 9/11 and pounced on it with one of the most egregious pieces of law ever introduced to Congress, betting rightly that an outraged and wounded country would accept it with nary a whimper. He espouses the invasion of privacy merely for information’s sake, and nearly any means to reach an end. For me and many others, this is an ominous trend and an unacceptable trampling of the basic freedoms our country is based upon. I’m not going to argue with you on this, but the simple fact is that while he may have written these poorly thought out and civil liberty-robbing decrees, YOUR congresspeople voted “Aye” on them. He’s scum, but we the people are allowing him to run roughshod over our liberties by not calling our congresspeople out. This latest is for Federal cases ONLY. Though I have to say I support any decriminalization and/or Judicial sentence-reduction for those crimes which have a ridiculous term assigned them. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/39 "2003-08-09T02:38:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > **manhattan** , I’ll match brainpower with you anytime. Your characterization of me as “stupid” is inappropriate and unfounded. BWAHAHAHAHA!! Your OP suggests that Mr. Ashcroft is responsible for this grevious ill, despite linking to an article that clearly explains he is merely effectuating a Congressionally-mandated requirement. If not “stupid,” perhaps you’d like to suggest another word that captures the foolishness you exhibit? I express no opinion on the other invectives mentioned. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859/40 "2003-08-10T15:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*So it would appear that I have the wrong pin-headed fuckwit in the thread title? Damn, had I but known. It seems to be the domain of the ill-informed and ill-equipped to attack the messenger rather than the message. > \*\* Your message was demonstrably, verifiably stupid, making the messenger himself stupid. Stupid motherfucker. You are too stupid to be a citizen of a democracy. Please leave and go to a dictatorship where the citizenry doesn’t have a choice and therefore no need for knowledge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuckwit-ashcroft-bludgeons-justice/193859.md?page=3)