The money/espionage angle sounds credible for al Halabi, considering the intel on him. I appreciate the insight. Wondering, though, what a foreign power like Syria might be able to accomplish with this information?
Mojo, respectfully, you’re a bit too glib on Captain Yee. But I agree with UncleBill: Yee is far more problematic.
The point I’m trying to make is not what Captain Yee’s actual motives were (since they are unknown at this very moment), but how they may be perceived in the US and across the world. It’s the troubling perceived insight into the US Military that bothers me most.
Oh, and on preview I’ve noted the insightful words of our esteemed colleague bri1600bv. Caught right up in the Tar Baby.
It is being referred to the military justice system, since both of the suspects were serving on active duty at the time of the alleged offenses. I imagine it will be heard by a General Court Martial in Halabi’s case, at least. That is the appropriate court.
It does not matter that it is not part of mainstream Islamic teaching; There is undeniably a segment of Islam that does preach violence against the West. Those particular muslims are the problem.
That is the most spectacularly assinine thing you have said, and you have said many assinine things. But between your comments, and those of DtC, my point about the Left being anti-American is being nicely proven.
I suppose your next insane utterings will be about Senior Airman Ahmad I. al-Halabi, and how he was trying to help the poor and oppressed, by sending some secrets to Syria? :rolleyes:
Mr. B, what troubling insight into the military are you referring to? It sounds like it’s being handled appropriately from an investigative perspective. If he truly had a conflict between his duties as a military officer and his faith, then he could have (and should have) taken action to remove himself from the source of conflict. He’s a West Pointer. He knows what Duty Honor Country means.
Brutus, could you keep your rantings about “the Left” being a bunch of commie nazis to yourself for once? There are plenty of fine 'muricans on both ends of the political spectrum and it might restore some of your credibility (not much, granted) to admit that.
Diogenes, do you have anything to support what you’re saying? Keep in mind that Senator Charles Schumer (by no means a Bush fan) for the past 6 months has been calling for a review of how the military determines the reliability of Muslim clerics. This is especially relevant since the place where Yee received his training is under investigation for ties with terrorists.
Agreed, Syria has its fingers in the pot, by many accounts. I think you can look from a diametric point of view, though and see this GTMO-gleaned intel may not have been used simply for terroristic purposes. Sure, if a key man in a terror cell is “off the reservation” and they can’t confirm his death or whereabouts, it’s valuable to know he’s compromised, languishing in GTMO.
But on the flip side, just imagine I’m a journalist covering the Moscow Theater Hostage Situation, from the rebels’ perspective. If I end up missing – my wife, parents and friends keep calling the State Department, writing letters, involving the media – and there’s a new Russian detention camp outside of the rules of Geneva, our government might be able to connect the dots. Wouldn’t then, a Russian turncoat who confirmed my whereabouts be regarded as a hero in the US?
Yes, but a Russian Traitor, most likely. If there are journalists in GITMO, your analogy is 100% right.
But to return to Chechnya with the diagram of the detention camp, messages from the Chechen terrorists, and flight patterns of the Russian aircraft in the area, I’d bet rubles to donuts that man is not loyal to Mother Russia.
Just so I understand what some of you are saying, if Yee was in possession of documentary evidence of US abuses at Guantanamo (as well as lists of names, diagrams, etc.), do you really believe that this fact would have been released to the press?
I side with Zenster here, this incident will be used to fuel more hatred, and a more hard-line stance – that will be the legacy of damage that Yee has left, regardless of his intentions.
While more so for the case of Halabi, this statement also applies in sterling fashion to Yee. Both of them could not possibly avoid being keenly aware of how their surreptitious activities were in conflict with their sworn duties.
That these two permitted themselves to violate their own oaths of honor (typically sworn to God) to protect their country shows that they had serious conflicts of interest.
Halabi is screwed, blued and tattooed. His contacts with Syria provide all the nails needed to seal his coffin. At this time, I’d like it noted that nowhere have I called for the execution of either soldier. If it can be proven that either of them were actively attempting to pass critical information to al Qaeda or other terrorist enemies, then I may well support the death penalty.
Again, I feel concerned that all honorable Muslims serving our country are going to go under the microscope due to this. Both Yee and Halabi have brought shame to their own names and service records. It is sad that so many will be unfairly scrutinized because of the actions of a few.
Although there is less convincing evidence of Yee’s attempted treason, he is also being investigated for links to radical Muslim groups in the United States. This does not bode well for him nor any putative innocence on his part. Remember, he had area diagrams. Had he been attempting to document rights abuses, such maps would not have been necessary.
I wouldn’t bet a plug nickel on either of them walking free for many years to come.
I don’t think we’ll ever know who’s there. That’s the worst thing to consider, and it weighs heavily on my mind: stuck down the Rabbit Hole, snacking on Happy Meals and Twinkies, a reminder painted onto every cell of just how far from Mecca you are.
[nitpick]You posted: * …center on allegations that he attempted to carry “en route to Syria” specific written records of detainees from the camp.* [/nitpick]
Again, our example might be a Russian traitor and an American hero.
I am not as angry at Captain Yee as I am with my own government. By committing people to GTMO without trial or representation, outside of the bounds of the Geneva Convention, our own government has tacitly allowed other countries to follow suit. I’m not afraid of a terrorist target on my back; I am purely terrified that my lifelong dream of traveling to Damascus might end with me trussed and blindfolded in a desert Yurt, or worse.
Islam doesn’t preach hatred of the West? Well some people who have actually read the book beg to differ. I know it’s open to interpretation, but some apparently interpret it exactly that way. Who are you to argue, given that you haven’t read the thing?
The inmates in Gitmo are allowed to write letters home. Did you know that? So his “he was just getting the names to notify the families” is just one more line of utter bullshit.
Yeah, yeah, human rights abuses…where? Why do you need names of guards, diagrams of inmate locations, flight times of incoming and leaving flights…yes yes it is clear that he was just following his conscience and “doing the right thing”. That is if you consider “doing the right thing” destroying the US and its servicemen.
From “The Observer” (London) Nov 3, 2002
Distant voices tell of life for Britons caged in Camp Delta
Letters to families reveal hunger strikes and suicides in US jail for
terror suspects
Paul Harris and Burhan Wazir
The letters are brief and blunt. Crammed into eight lines in block
capitals, the postcards ask after family and friends and wish a happy
birthday to a much-loved brother. Asif Iqbal, 20, from Tipton in the
West Midlands, could be any prisoner writing home to a concerned
family.
There is no evidence that the cleric in question is a part of that segment. Anyway Bri’s assertion that “Maybe as fervent Muslims, they believe that the US is evil and that anything that furthers the religion is good?” does not say anything about a minority segment. The clear implication in this ignorant bit of drivel is that hating America is some how part and parcel of Islam.
What book would that be? The Koran? I assure you it says nothing about hating America.
There are some who interpret the Bible as telling them they they are Jesus and that theys hould stockpile weapons at a compound in Texas. There are Christians who blow up abortion clinics. That doesn’t mean that Christianity teaches that.
What “thing” are you talking about? I have read the Koran, if that’s what you mean.
Ahhhhhhhhhh. Just what this forum’s been missing, the canon fodder of the Christian Right.
In case you won’t be able to squeeze The Holy Qur’an into your busy schedule, there are guides for people like you. Please come back when you’re more informed.
No evidence, true. However, knowing that this segment does exist, it provides a legitimate possible answer to the question of “Why would a Muslim cleric betray America.” Surely you can’t deny that.
All right then, and hello there yourself - I was a little confused by your earlier comments as to the clergy, but I see you’ve posted clarifying comments in the interim.
That’s President Bush, not Mr. Bush, though. (Nope, not a Republican, just stating my opinion).