# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/301 "2011-06-09T13:43:23Z")
Any guesses from our legal minds how far up the court system this will goo, with what sorts of rulings at what levels? (I understand the consensus already is that it will most likely fall, when all is said and done, and I have been told before that if it goes all the way to the SC it could be years, but what will be the path of it getting all said and done?) ---
**Author:** ![sprale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sprale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sprale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/302 "2011-07-11T19:53:36Z")
I think it’s retarded that a doctor refused to treat a patient based on that patient wanting to maintain privacy over some personal choices in their life that have little to nothing to do with health issues (unless they are being treated for gunshot wounds of course). I think that it’s even more retarded it is illegal for a doctor to ask the question. If the patient does not want to disclose information, that is a personal choice. A doctor that refused treatment on the basis of the patient withholding irrelevant information doesn’t deserve the career they have chosen and should lose their license. I guess the Hippocratic oath should be renamed the Hypocritic oath for these prying doctors, as I have often heard. In the end, I guess it should be a free world. If a doctor asks you questions that you are not comfortable with, find a new doctor. Berate them in a blog or Facebook over the choice if you want, but they have a right to be a d-bag and ask retarded questions, just as you have the right to choose a doctor. Let’s stop making retarded laws just because a few people get offended about whatever. No wonder legislators are raking it in, we keep sending business their way… And yeah, fuck Floriduh. With a pineapple in the pooter. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/303 "2011-07-11T20:21:22Z")
So … fuck the doctor, fuck the patient, fuck the people who make laws and fuck everybody in Florida just for good measure. I’m not exactly sure what your stand is here, but no one can fault your passion. I guess. Also … insert zombie joke here … you’ll figure that out soon, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/304 "2011-07-11T20:33:57Z")
As I write this, new poster **sprale** has four posts, in three threads, and all of them are about gun-related issues. I encourage the newbie to branch out a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![sprale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sprale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sprale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/305 "2011-07-11T20:43:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So … fuck the doctor, fuck the patient, fuck the people who make laws and fuck everybody in Florida just for good measure. > > I’m not exactly sure what your stand is here, but no one can fault your passion. I guess. > > Also … insert zombie joke here … you’ll figure that out soon, I’m sure. Nah, mostly fuck Florida. I lived there a while, barely survived, so have some experience. Florida puts the _F_ in WTF! I just don’t think that the state should discourage the First Amendment right of a doctor to [ask a question](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/06/anti-gun_physicians_in_florida_claim_right_to_ask_patients_about_gun_ownership.html) they feel relevant. Most practices are private, so it’s a business. If you don’t like what your doctor says, find another doctor. If he’s way out of line, complain to the [state medical board](http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/medical/). Medical issues and public safety issues are mostly separate. > [@Baker](#): > > As I write this, new poster **sprale** has four posts, in three threads, and all of them are about gun-related issues. > > I encourage the newbie to branch out a little bit. I’m sure I will in time. I just stumbled onto these couple of posts. I didn’t say I’d been here long, just added some opinions on topics I find of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/306 "2011-07-12T02:26:16Z")
> [@sprale](#): > > I think it’s retarded that a doctor refused to treat a patient based on that patient wanting to maintain privacy over some personal choices in their life that have little to nothing to do with health issues (unless they are being treated for gunshot wounds of course). I think that it’s even more retarded it is illegal for a doctor to ask the question. If the patient does not want to disclose information, that is a personal choice. I’m going to say this as gently as possible–you’re an idiot. I’m the guy who advocates legal machine guns and all that, so it’s not because I’m anti-gun. The fact of the matter is, the primary impetus for this law doctor was a pediatrician discussing childproofing a house. Gun ownership is every kind of relevant to that. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/307 "2011-07-12T03:22:20Z")
He’s not saying it should be illegal for the doctor to refuse to treat the patient. He’s just saying it’s dumb. I disagree, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable position. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/308 "2011-07-12T03:58:00Z")
And again, if that is what occurred (which is not all that clear) it already is against established guidelines regarding patient abandonment. He can dismiss the family for abusive or threatening behavior to him or staff, for non-payment, for multiple missed appointments, so on, but not just for refusing to answer a question. I suspect that the woman got very upset at his daring to ask about guns and crossed an unacceptable behavior line (in my office yelling or swearing at staff - at me is okay - or causing a scene in the waiting room would do it) and was either dismissed for that reason, or was not actually dismissed but was encouraged to consider finding a practice more to her liking (which I have done on occasion when it is clear that a parent will be regularly unhappy with our practice style). ---
**Author:** ![sprale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sprale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sprale)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/309 "2011-07-12T14:42:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’m going to say this as gently as possible–you’re an idiot. Thank you for being gentle with me. I just can’t handle it when others don’t share my opinions. :rolleyes: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s not saying it should be illegal for the doctor to refuse to treat the patient. He’s just saying it’s dumb. I disagree, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable position. Bingo, I believe that the doctor should be able to ask a question of me that he has no place asking, and that I have the right to answer or not. I don’t think that the state has any place regulating that freedom of speech. If there is a good reason for asking (like having a history of gun-related accidents), then the doctor should have that freedom to inquire to as to the safety of the patient. I don’t care whether the doctor has an opinion on guns either way. I only care that they are capable of treating or preventing physical health-related issues. > [@DSeid](#): > > And again, if that is what occurred (which is not all that clear) it already is against established guidelines regarding patient abandonment. He can dismiss the family for abusive or threatening behavior to him or staff, for non-payment, for multiple missed appointments, so on, but not just for refusing to answer a question. > > I suspect that the woman got very upset at his daring to ask about guns and crossed an unacceptable behavior line (in my office yelling or swearing at staff - at me is okay - or causing a scene in the waiting room would do it) and was either dismissed for that reason, or was not actually dismissed but was encouraged to consider finding a practice more to her liking (which I have done on occasion when it is clear that a parent will be regularly unhappy with our practice style). In which case, she has the right to complain to the state board. Legislation preventing a doctor from asking the question is not necessary, as if the doctor is out of line he already has to answer to the board. The real idiots are those who ask the government to legislate against groups or individuals on such flaky grounds. Silencing someone’s First Amendment rights to protect someone else’s Second Amendment rights is more fail than win. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/310 "2011-07-12T16:41:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And again, if that is what occurred (which is not all that clear) it already is against established guidelines regarding patient abandonment. He can dismiss the family for abusive or threatening behavior to him or staff, for non-payment, for multiple missed appointments, so on, but not just for refusing to answer a question. Incidentally, in Florida a physician _can_ dismiss a patient for refusing to answer questions under our medical noncompliance statute, subject to the 30 day warning and other usual requirements. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/311 "2011-07-13T02:50:19Z")
Refusing to answer a question counts as “noncompliance” there? Wow. Florida really is something else. Anyway, since this thread has been bumped, [here](http://saintpetersblog.com/2011/07/nra-loading-up-for-docs-v-glocks-trial/) is the current state of the lawsuit. The case for an injunction to block the law is up tomorrow. The NRA tried to formally participate in the proceedings but they have been told [no](http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/59787074?access_key=key-14bm2ffr3vi544jg8sni) by the judge. Stay tuned. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/312 "2011-07-14T03:51:48Z")
[How it went today.](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/florida-docs-ask-federal-court-to-block-law-1606332.html) > [@](#): > > The judge is expected to issue a ruling later this summer. > > Douglas Hallward-Driemeier, a Washington D.C. attorney from the firm of Ropes & Gray, representing the physicians, told Judge Marcia G. Cooke that the law violated physicians’ First Amendment right to free speech. > > He said doctors regularly warn patients about many health risks, especially where children are concerned, such as pools and child safety seats. He said HB 155 was aimed at regulating inquiries regarding a specific subject matter – firearms – by a specific group – medical practitioners – and that made it an unconstitutional violation of free speech. > > In an obvious reference to the National Rifle Association, he said there was no precedent in law “where lobbyists for powerful interests can say to a doctor, ‘Just don’t say that.’” … > > … The state, represented by Assistant Attorney General Jay Vail, said the statute was not unconstitutional. He stressed that the law protected the rights of patients to not answer questions about gun ownership and protected doctors’ right to end relationships with certain patients. > > “The statute does not prohibit firearm safety conversations a doctor wants to have with patients,” Vail said. … ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/313 "2011-09-16T04:20:42Z")
Thread bump for the greater good. Saw [this](http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/15/why-its-now-okay-for-pediatricians-in-florida-to-talk-about-guns/)earlier today. Here’s the [ruling](http://www.aap.org/advocacy/pi_decision.pdf)(warning: pdf). Suffice to say, the law restricted free speech. Can’t say I was surprised. Reading the judge’s comments about the Florida Legislature was a hoot. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/314 "2011-09-16T11:31:44Z")
Good call on the judge’s part. (More after I read it in detail.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/315 "2011-09-16T13:36:24Z")
Thank you for the update. I see that [Scott says the state plans to appeal](http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/14/2407344/judge-blocks-fla-law-restricting.html#ixzz1Y1IAG7XX) the ruling. Meanwhile also no surprise that I am pleased to not be surprised. The ruling not only reverses this particular law, but should help chill attempts to get other similar laws passed in other states. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/316 "2011-09-16T13:43:59Z")
As a “gun nut”, I concur–it’s a good ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/317 "2011-09-16T14:45:34Z")
Well, the only other thing I have to say is that I hate having my nose rubbed in the fact that “my side” does stupid shit like passing this law. It’s a solid decision. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/318 "2011-09-17T05:34:11Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yep their fear about government getting between them and their doctor was a real concern. Of course when the Republicans pass a law that does exactly that it’s A.OK. Which republican law does that? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/319 "2011-09-17T12:44:27Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Which republican law does that? 318 posts into a thread about a Republican passed law that limits the free speech a doctor can have with their patients and you have to ask? If you can’t read the fucking thread move on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/320 "2011-09-17T13:19:58Z")
Didn’t see that coming, actually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=17)