# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/341 "2014-07-27T05:30:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Maybe because doctors are authority figures. What they say to their patients carries a lot more weight than what a random person out there says. So they should limit what they say to health matters. Children playing with firearms has proven to have negative health outcomes ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/342 "2014-07-27T06:02:42Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Children playing with firearms has proven to have negative health outcomes A stretch. Everything you do in life may lead to a negative health outcome. As I said, doctors, as authority figures to their patients, should stick to medical matters and not to everything else under the sun. That said, this principle should definitely not be codified into law. Maybe into ethics guidelines by AMA. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/343 "2014-07-27T11:11:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A stretch. Everything you do in life may lead to a negative health outcome. As I said, doctors, as authority figures to their patients, should stick to medical matters and not to everything else under the sun. This is just stupid. Doctors should be free to provide any information that will improve their well-being. Empirical evidence supports the health promoting effects of not smoking, wearing bike helmets, and not keeping firearms in the house. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/344 "2014-07-27T11:23:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But at the same time, it delights me to see various liberal contortions that let them assert this law is improper, but pharmacists can still be forced to sell abortion-inducing medication. > > In my view, an honest application of principles would recognize that you can’t favor the power of government to do one without the other. They aren’t similar at all. The pharmacist who refuses to sell medication (and will likely steal the woman’s prescription if given the chance) is refusing to do his job. The doctor who tells people not to have guns in their home is doing his job. They are opposites, not the same. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/345 "2014-07-27T12:46:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Maybe because doctors are authority figures. What they say to their patients carries a lot more weight than what a random person out there says. So they should limit what they say to health matters. And safety is a health matter. It really is that simple. Whether or not it, or pool safety, or being aware of how your prescription medicines are stored, or car seats, or sun screen, or bike helmets, are enough of a safety issue to make it into the rotation of subjects to discuss is a decision for the individual health professional to make with consideration of guidance from their expert bodies and their read of the data especially as it applies to their particular population base … even if you or a particular judge disagrees with their conclusions in any of those cases. **Bricker** , honestly the entertaining contortion being made is by you. As stated, a pharmacist refusing to treat based on a religious belief is not a pharmacist doing their job let alone a pharmacist doing their job in accordance with standards set by their professional bodies. It is their refusing to do their job. A pediatrician asking about safety issues is a pediatrician doing his/her job. The parallel in this case would be if the alleged anecdote that provoked this law actually happened as described, that someone was refused medical care on the basis of their legally owning a gun. I have no problem stating that refusal to provide care, especially if you are the only reasonable care option at that time, on that basis, would be wrong. And as was covered previously in this thread is already against standards of care. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/346 "2014-07-27T13:50:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And safety is a health matter. > > It really is that simple. > > Whether or not it, or pool safety, or being aware of how your prescription medicines are stored, or car seats, or sun screen, or bike helmets, are enough of a safety issue to make it into the rotation of subjects to discuss is a decision for the individual health professional to make with consideration of guidance from their expert bodies and their read of the data especially as it applies to their particular population base … even if you or a particular judge disagrees with their conclusions in any of those cases. > > **Bricker** , honestly the entertaining contortion being made is by you. As stated, a pharmacist refusing to treat based on a religious belief is not a pharmacist doing their job let alone a pharmacist doing their job in accordance with standards set by their professional bodies. It is their refusing to do their job. A pediatrician asking about safety issues is a pediatrician doing his/her job. > > The parallel in this case would be if the alleged anecdote that provoked this law actually happened as described, that someone was refused medical care on the basis of their legally owning a gun. I have no problem stating that refusal to provide care, especially if you are the only reasonable care option at that time, on that basis, would be wrong. And as was covered previously in this thread is already against standards of care. Who gets to decide what constitutes “doing their job?” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/347 "2014-07-27T14:33:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who gets to decide what constitutes “doing their job?” How is practicing a religious belief “doing a job”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/348 "2014-07-27T14:47:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And safety is a health matter. Should my doctor worry whether I walk around at night in unsafe neighborhoods? Should he ask if I speed? Should he worry whether I have some unsavory friends? Should he inquire whether I use a clothespin to hold the nail when I drive it into the wall instead of my fingers? Doctors know they are authority figures and thus should have the responsibility not to give unsolicited advice on non-medical issues. And no, guns are not a medical issue. IMO, of course. It really is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/349 "2014-07-27T14:50:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who gets to decide what constitutes “doing their job?” Mostly, state boards that regulate standards and practices for the medical professions. Quite surprised to hear you did not know this. Unless, of course, you hope to achieve by insinuation what you cannot accomplish by explicit argument. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/350 "2014-07-27T15:01:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Should my doctor worry whether I walk around at night in unsafe neighborhoods? Should he ask if I speed? Should he worry whether I have some unsavory friends? Should he inquire whether I use a clothespin to hold the nail when I drive it into the wall instead of my fingers? > > Doctors know they are authority figures and thus should have the responsibility not to give unsolicited advice on non-medical issues. And no, guns are not a medical issue. IMO, of course. > > It really is that simple. This is further stupidity. Really. What the fuck is your plan if you should ever be shot? Are you going to go to a gunsmith? Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/351 "2014-07-27T15:07:29Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is further stupidity. Really. What the fuck is your plan if you should ever be shot? Are you going to go to a gunsmith? Moron. Again, as I said, absolutely anything you do can lead to a medical problem. Does that mean that the doctor should be able to stick his nose in and give me advice (again, as an authority figure) into every aspect of my life? Oh, and you’re an idiot. As an obligatory pit thing. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/352 "2014-07-27T15:25:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Does that mean that the doctor should be able to stick his nose in and give me advice (again, as an authority figure) into every aspect of my life? “Giving advice” != “sticking his nose in.” And yes, my doctor should provide me information–advice–that can help keep me and mine out of the ER. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/353 "2014-07-27T15:32:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > How is practicing a religious belief “doing a job”? My question was, “Who gets to decide what the parameters of ‘doing a job’ are?” And to the extent that you believe a [pro-life person must be acting from a religious motive:](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/) > [@](#): > > When I partnered with fellow atheists from Secular Pro-Life to bring a display table to the 2012 American Atheists Convention, some bloggers really wanted to believe we were lying about our atheism, but it turns out we’re all True Scotsmen. The latest Gallup poll suggests that 19% of those identifying as atheist, agnostic, or of no religious affiliation also identify as pro-life. So with that answered, I ask again: who gets to decide what constitutes “doing a job?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/354 "2014-07-27T15:34:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Mostly, state boards that regulate standards and practices for the medical professions. Quite surprised to hear you did not know this. Unless, of course, you hope to achieve by insinuation what you cannot accomplish by explicit argument. Great. Then when a state board of pharmacists passes a regulation allowing pharmacists to refuse to dispense, you agree that this is legitimate? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/355 "2014-07-27T15:49:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Mostly, state boards that regulate standards and practices for the medical professions. Quite surprised to hear you did not know this. Unless, of course, you hope to achieve by insinuation what you cannot accomplish by explicit argument. Explicit argument: both the APhA and a number of state boards of pharmacy support the right of pharmacists to refuse to dispense. But you don’t agree that these rules are valid. The only times you think state boards make rules that can be enforced is when you agree with those rules. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/356 "2014-07-27T17:04:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My question was, “Who gets to decide what the parameters of ‘doing a job’ are?” > > And to the extent that you believe a [pro-life person must be acting from a religious motive:](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/) > > So with that answered, I ask again: who gets to decide what constitutes “doing a job?” None of that is remotely responsive to the question. Can you answer it or not? Engaging in religious practices is not the job of a pharmacist. Encouraging health promoting behaviors is the job of a physician. Your contortions, by the way, are not particularly amusing. They are pathetic and weasely. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/357 "2014-07-27T17:32:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > None of that is remotely responsive to the question. Can you answer it or not? > > Engaging in religious practices is not the job of a pharmacist. Cite? > [@](#): > > Encouraging health promoting behaviors is the job of a physician. Yes, but religion is healthy. > [@](#): > > Your contortions, by the way, are not particularly amusing. They are pathetic and weasely. You’re the one making uncited assertions. Who gets to decide what the legitimate, proper job function of a doctor, or a pharmacist, is? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/358 "2014-07-27T17:36:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? > > Yes, but religion is healthy. > You’re the one making uncited assertions. Who gets to decide what the legitimate, proper job function of a doctor, or a pharmacist, is? Answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/359 "2014-07-27T17:46:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Answer the question. What is the question? “How is practicing a religious belief doing a job?” Answer: the ability to refuse to dispense based on a moral reservation is a legitimate part of that job, that’s how. And that is true if it’s religiously grounded, or not. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/360 "2014-07-27T18:00:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, but religion is healthy. Does _healthy_ include having your mind function well? Because religion makes otherwise rational people act in an irrational way. Or have outright delusions, like thinking that crackers are Jesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=19)