# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/421 "2014-07-29T01:00:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Abusing and killing women is not his job. Again; should he be allowed to beat and rape his female customers? Because that’s morally no different; actually, it’s less evil than what they actually do. > > And since this is supposed to be about guns; yes, if there was no other way to get him to stop I _would_ consider it morally justifiable if she just shot him and took the medicine for herself. No different than killing a charging rapist. Just like any rapist, he’s asserting that he owns her body and can do with it as he pleases. My only regret is that every Democratic politician in the country does not publicly adopt your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/422 "2014-07-29T01:00:54Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Giving advice” != “sticking his nose in.” > > And yes, my doctor should provide me information–advice–that can help keep me and mine out of the ER. If the doctor is encouraging you to learn and practice gun safety (or warning you of the dangers of having a gun in a house with children), that’s one thing. If they are telling you that you are three times more likely to be murdered if you have a gun in the house then thats another. Personally, I do not like this law. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/423 "2014-07-29T01:00:56Z")
Another thing to consider is that our society has pharmacists as the gate that allows access to prescription medication. You can’t access those meds without interfacing with a pharmacist. So it shouldn’t be up to an individual pharmacist what meds he gives out. Since that undercuts the doctor’s and patients access to medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/424 "2014-07-29T01:02:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That would appear to be true. > > Of course, the government can regulate professional conduct in a way that they cannot regulate a private citizen’s conduct. > > Still, I am torn. I recognize that this law is massively outrageous overreach and violative of good sense as well as First Amendment rights, because a balancing of the First Amendment interest here shows the law is over breadth to accomplish any legitimate government interest. > > So I oppose the law. > > But at the same time, it delights me to see various liberal contortions that let them assert this law is improper, but pharmacists can still be forced to sell abortion-inducing medication. > > In my view, an honest application of principles would recognize that you can’t favor the power of government to do one without the other. > > I absolutely agree that doctors should be free to ask what they please about guns, and patients should be free to seek another doctor. Notice that I don’t speculate about happens if the patient lives too far from another doctor or can only get around with public transportation. I accept that these things are part of the marketplace of health care. What about public elementary school teachers who are asking these questions out of concern for the welfare of their charges? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/425 "2014-07-29T01:03:55Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Does _healthy_ include having your mind function well? Because religion makes otherwise rational people act in an irrational way. > > Or have outright delusions, like thinking that crackers are Jesus. I thought Jesus was black not a cracker. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/426 "2014-07-29T01:06:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My only regret is that every Democratic politician in the country does not publicly adopt your point of view. Your position has little moral high ground over his. You want to hurt other human beings because your religion tells you that a fetus is people. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/427 "2014-07-29T01:07:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Which can be caused by any number of things. Is\*\* Dseid\*\* going to conduct a grand inquisition for power tools, ladders, loose carpet, improper wiring, asbestos, driving habits, food control, household chemical storage, criminal history on all household members, ventilation, agressive and/or clumsy dogs, proper footwear, and anything else that might possibly cause an accidental injury? I think not. He’s got a bug up his butt about guns, and wants to use his bully pulpit to push a gun grabbing agenda. That’s bullshit. Are any of those other things made with the _primary purpose_ of causing injury? :rolleyes: Cut the shit. Yes, he certainly “has a bug up his butt” about keeping kids, and other living things, from being killed. Calling that “bullshit” is not evidence of taking the problem, or human life itself, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/428 "2014-07-29T01:10:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I thought Jesus was black not a cracker. Jesus looks like a younger version of God. So, yeah, He’s white. He also swings mighty Dong. Which, let’s be honest, is the main reason to have an avatar. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/429 "2014-07-29T01:11:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. Let’s say I accept that answer. > > Who gets to decide? You say it depends on what the behavior is – who makes the decision whether behavior X can be legitimately regulated? Isn’t this the part where you give us that triumphal lecture about the rule of law, and anyone who disagrees with it must want to be emperor of the world or something? Or is that response situation-dependent - if you don’t like the result, then the law doesn’t even exist? That’s the answer - because the law, derived from the consent of the governed and all that other stuff you love to lecture about, is against you. No, a fetus is not a human. You would do much better to try to convince us that your view is actually correct, instead of denouncing the baby-killers and so forth, as a religious fanatic does. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/430 "2014-07-29T01:22:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And remind me please about how you feel about what is and is not included in basic job descriptions. > > Is it your position that refusing to dispense medication because your personal religious belief disagrees with the medication is part of the job description for a pharmacist? No but it is certainly morally and ethically permissible. Pharmacists are not glorified cashiers or human vending machines. We should not force a pharmacist to dispense birth control pills any more than we force a doctor to perform abortions. Of course I think their employer should be able to fire them for it but that’s between them and their employer. > [@](#): > > Do you disagree that giving preventative guidance about health risks and deciding which guidance is worth giving is part of the job of a primary care physician, in particular a pediatrician? > > Pharmacists may want to say they should not have to do their job if it violates their personal beliefs and no matter if doing such effectively makes the patient unable to get that care, and we can debate that. But to compare that with primary care physicians saying that that they want to _do_ their job, even if the NRA or a majority in a state Congress disagrees with how they do it, is a contortion of entertaining dimensions. OK, so you think that discussing guns with a patience is medical advice. The state of Florida doesn’t think so and since medicine is regulated by the states, they define what constitutes professional responsibility. You seem to be saying that guns are different because there is a nexus between guns and death/injury while pharmacists refusal to dispense drugs are proselytizing and might be contradictory to good health outcomes (in that minority of cases where birth control pills are therapeutic). I’d say it depends on what the doctor is saying. If the doctor is encouraging good gun safety (or pointing out the risk of owning a gun with children in the house), then sure. There might be people out there that need to be reminded that you shouldn’t leave loaded guns lying around if there are kids in the house. If the doctor is reaching conclusions about whether a person is better or worse off with a gun, then its just proselytizing, no better than slut-shaming women who buy birth control. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/431 "2014-07-29T01:29:28Z")
> [@](#): > > …We should not force a pharmacist to dispense birth control pills any more than we force a doctor to perform abortions… Are you putting contraception in some category that makes it very similar to abortion? Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/432 "2014-07-29T01:38:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Another thing to consider is that our society has pharmacists as the gate that allows access to prescription medication. You can’t access those meds without interfacing with a pharmacist. > > So it shouldn’t be up to an individual pharmacist what meds he gives out. Since that undercuts the doctor’s and patients access to medicine. And our society has doctors as the gatekeepers of access to medical practice as a whole. So a doctor shouldn’t be asking questions that will cause him to terminate the doctor-patient relationship when the patient has no obligation to answer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/433 "2014-07-29T01:39:00Z")
I think you know that he is. Amazing, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/434 "2014-07-29T01:39:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I agree this should be the standard. > > I also wish to apply it to pharmacists. The standard for doctors is that we need to provide care for our patients. If I want to dismiss a patient for cause I must give them notice and provide them with care. (BTW owning a gun would not be considered “cause” although a belligerent and abusive response to being asked about … anything … including gun ownership … could be cause.) An ED doc must take care of anyone who comes through the door, be it the Pope or a neo-Nazi. (S)he cannot say that they have an ethical objection and let the Nazi stroke out. Again, making a comparison between wanting to do our job and care for our patients, with a pharmacist leaving a patient without care, is insane. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/435 "2014-07-29T01:56:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Cite that a gun in the home has ever been found to increase the chance of someone catching a disease? Let us deal with the less incomplete statement: > [@Oakminster](#): > > Guns are not now, never have been, and never will be a medical issue. The presence of a gun in a home does not make it more or less likely that someone will catch some illness or disease … Guns are a significant contributing cause of morbidity and mortality. Surely you do not dispute that? Anything, ANYTHING, that is a significant cause of morbidity and mortality, _is a medical issue_. Guns in the house of Adam Lanza contributed significant illness, disease, and death. Now one can have debates, and lord knows we have had 'em here, on how big of a risk that actually represents, and how big of a potential offsetting benefit there is to defensive gun use. (I know that you believe the analysis of such done in the medical literature is flawed and biased.) But unless they are exactly offsetting the presence of a gun in a home does make it more or less likely that someone will have a serious medical event occur. Moreover if there are children in the house the presence of unsecured guns is a greater risk for serious medical consequences, including brain damage, paralysis, and death, than a household in which the guns are stored more safely. I know you think that the advice to gun owners to > [@](#): > > Store guns so that they are not accessible to children and other unauthorized users. is just [ignorant liberal drivel](http://eddieeagle.nra.org/information-for-parents.aspx) but I believe that it should not be a crime to be sure that parents have heard that drivel. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/436 "2014-07-29T02:07:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You don’t think doctors should care about injury or death? Just disease? > > Honestly, is this any different than asking about a pool? Is it any different than asking about child-proofing stairs? These doofuses have been very clear that they think a pediatrician is out of line for asking about any of that … unless specifically asked about it by the parent. Discussing how to secure medications, what to do about choking, the fact that cords hanging from blinds should be bound up out of a toddler’s reach so (s)he does not get it wrapped around his/her neck and strangle, that passive exposure to smoke increases SIDS risk, so on … all are paternalistic promotion of a nanny state and beyond the scope of what a pediatrician should be doing - taking care of sick kids and that alone. If a pediatrican stepped out of line like that they’d explode upon him or her and do their best to harm their practice with complaints to boards and bad reviews. The only difference of course is that they might react with an “of course we are keeping the car seat rear facing until age two years old” if asked about how they are currently using the car seat but react with wanting to prohibit speech if asked about if guns are in the house and if so how are they stored. I think I had mentioned this early on in this thread but asking about bullets is part of the standard screening questionaire for lead risk. I wonder if this law would make that questionaire a banned item? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/437 "2014-07-29T02:18:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Let us deal with the less incomplete statement: So no cite, then. Figures. > [@](#): > > Anything, ANYTHING, that is a significant cause of morbidity and mortality, _is a medical issue_. . Nope. Your constant repetition of that ridiculous mantra doesn’t make it so. Guns do not cause illness or disease. They can, like thousands of other things, lead to accidental or intentional injury. The problem is with human negligence and/or malevolence, not inanimate objects. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/438 "2014-07-29T02:19:15Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Unintentional injury is the leading cause of death among children in the U.S., and unintentional firearm death is in the top ten for kids 5-9. Do you have a cite for that? 7 out of every 10,000,000 kids dies of accidental gunshot wounds ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/439 "2014-07-29T02:20:41Z")
The “conscience clauses” for pharmacists are not determining how pharmacists do their job; rather, they are **allowing pharmacists a voluntary and limited _exemption_ from doing their job** , out of deference to their personal beliefs. No legal ruling or medical professional standard mandates or recommends that pharmacists refuse to dispense birth control or Plan B or similar. The only reason they choose to do so is that their personal ideology places the potential destruction of a fertilized egg on a par with murder. Neither the law nor professional codes of conduct support “pro-life” pharmacists in this opinion. Their refusal to dispense certain legally prescribed medications is not part of doing their job; they are simply choosing to avoid a part of their job that they personally find morally unacceptable, and they are allowed to do so for the sake of freedom of conscience. The “Glocks vs. docs” law, on the other hand, is **actively _preventing_ physicians from doing their job**. I wonder if pediatricians under that law are still allowed to state general information about firearm safety in the home, even if they’re not allowed to ask their patients’ parents about it. Could a doctor say to parents something like, _“I am legally barred from inquiring whether your home contains any firearms, but I am obligated by medical ethics to ensure that you have information about important safety issues concerning your child. Therefore, it is my duty to tell you that letting children have access to loaded firearms statistically increases the chance of serious injury or death by X percent, while consistent use of secure firearm storage reduces it by Y percent…”_ Etc. etc.? Then if parents didn’t want to hear it they could say so, but the doc would not be liable to legal penalty just for having brought up the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/440 "2014-07-29T02:20:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And our society has doctors as the gatekeepers of access to medical practice as a whole. So a doctor shouldn’t be asking questions that will cause him to terminate the doctor-patient relationship when the patient has no obligation to answer. I don’t think that terminating the relationship is reasonable. I do think asking the question is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=23)