# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/441 "2014-07-29T02:25:53Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Which position gets deference? A doctor or a pharmacist? If a doctor issues a prescription to a patient, is it ok for the pharmacist to substitute his/her judgement for the doctor’s? Did the pharmacist graduate medical school? Did the pharmacist take the Hippocratic Oath? Isn’t it kind of like your waiter taking something off of your plate while delivering it to you because he has a difference of opinion with the chef on whether it tastes good? No, its nothing like that at all. Pharmacists know a shitload more about drugs than doctors. Doctors frequently get educated about drugs from pharmacy reps and lectures, frequently sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. Pharmacists take CPE to learn this stuff. The only reason I mention this is because this attitude (analogizing pharmacists to waiters (or cashiers or vending machines)) is part of the problem. The Pharmacists job isn’t just to do whatever the fuck the doctor tells them. They are people. They understand better than most doctors what these drugs do and if they have a moral objection to dispensing a drug, why would we force them to do so if we wouldn’t also force a doctor to perform an abortion or apply euthanasia? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/442 "2014-07-29T02:26:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Which can be caused by any number of things. Is\*\* Dseid\*\* going to conduct a grand inquisition for power tools, ladders, loose carpet, improper wiring, asbestos, driving habits, food control, household chemical storage, criminal history on all household members, ventilation, agressive and/or clumsy dogs, proper footwear, and anything else that might possibly cause an accidental injury? I think not. He’s got a bug up his butt about guns, and wants to use his bully pulpit to push a gun grabbing agenda. That’s bullshit. Some of those items, in fact, yes. Driving habits for sure. Food issues a major item from birth on! In fact obesity prevention/treatment and healthy lifestyle development, including fitness, whether or not overweight, at individual, programatic, and community-wide levels is a major interest of mine. Matters a lot more to me than guns do honestly (that’s the bug up my personal butt). Household chemical storage, oh yeah, I talk about that. I do (by way of questionaire) ask if household members have been in prison … it is a risk factor for TB exposure and if so, or if one of several other risk factors, a TB skin test should be performed; if none of those are positive then the rate of false positives makes screening by skin test not advised. Talk about dogs and the need to train both the dog and the child about being around the dog (roughly 2.3 million dog bites a year in the US and a third are estimated to be by the family dog). The list of what I should be covering is vast and honestly I don’t cover all of them. I pick the ones that I think matter the most for the kids based on the age of the child and what I know of my patients’ demographics … influenced by expert panel recommendations and my assessment of how much of an impact the discussion can have. In my mind, for my patient population, once again, guns are not in my top rotation (although it does _sometimes_ come up, usually after that lead screening question, with no offense taken by anyone ever … albeit of little impact as those of my population who own guns are already pretty responsible owners, some of them being cops or with the FBI.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/443 "2014-07-29T02:30:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Another thing to consider is that our society has pharmacists as the gate that allows access to prescription medication. You can’t access those meds without interfacing with a pharmacist. > > So it shouldn’t be up to an individual pharmacist what meds he gives out. Since that undercuts the doctor’s and patients access to medicine. Our society has obstetricians as a gateway to abortions. You can’t access an abortion without interfacing with an obstetrician. So it shouldn’t be up to an individual obstetrician to determine whether to perform an abortion or not, since that undercuts the patient’s (and if you like, her primary care doctor’s) access to an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/444 "2014-07-29T02:32:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Your position has little moral high ground over his. You want to hurt other human beings because your religion tells you that a fetus is people. Are you fucking kidding me? Der Trihs is advocating shooting pharmacists who won’t dispense birth control. Bricker is advocates the outlaw of elective abortions. I am pretty sure he would permit elective abortions to the victims of incest and rape but I am not sure. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/445 "2014-07-29T02:33:05Z")
**Oakminster** you do not consider “injury” in the purview of medicine? I presume that when you are in a car accident you will not go the Emergency Room physician? Did your mama did not bring you to a doctor when she dropped you on your head as a baby? Cause that must be the explanation for this amount of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/446 "2014-07-29T02:34:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Isn’t this the part where you give us that triumphal lecture about the rule of law, and anyone who disagrees with it must want to be emperor of the world or something? Or is that response situation-dependent - if you don’t like the result, then the law doesn’t even exist? > > That’s the answer - because the law, derived from the consent of the governed and all that other stuff you love to lecture about, is against you. No, a fetus is not a human. You would do much better to try to convince us that your view is actually correct, instead of denouncing the baby-killers and so forth, as a religious fanatic does. Sooooo… consent of the governed makes sense for abortions but not for guns? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/447 "2014-07-29T02:39:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are you putting contraception in some category that makes it very similar to abortion? Are you serious? Yeah. What the fuck is the moral difference between a first trimester abortion and a birth control pill? You are still forcing someone to do something that any reasonable professional should be willing to do, but some simply will not… for moral reasons and we respect those moral reasons in doctors and not in pharmacists. If a doctor says "I won’t perform abortions because its against my religion’ we all nod our heads and say we understand. If a pharmacist says “I won’t dispense that drug because its against my religion” then we crucify the pharmacist. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/448 "2014-07-29T02:40:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I think you know that he is. > > Amazing, ain’t it? So you think we should apply special standards to abortions versus other medical procedures? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/449 "2014-07-29T03:01:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? Per the CDC: Unintentional injury is the leading cause of death among children in the US as stated by the CDC [as follows](http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/images/cdc-childhoodinjury.pdf): > [@](#): > > Unintentional injury is the leading cause of morbidity and mortality in the United States. [Unintentional firearm death is in the top ten for kids 5-9](http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_injury_deaths_highlighting_unintentional_injury_2011-a.pdf). Number 8 of _all_ deaths to be precise. Taking out homicide by firearm (number 4) it moves into number 7. In the 10 to 14 year old group numbers 3 and 5 are homicide and suicide by firearm respectively. But these kids at least are not doing it by accident! Of course transportation related and drowning are bigger overall. I really need to do a better job discussing water safety. Oh wait … drowning is not a medical issue because it is not illness or disease. Not my job! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/450 "2014-07-29T03:09:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think that terminating the relationship is reasonable. I do think asking the question is. Right. The terminating the relationship is a red herring based on a hearsay story of one. And I highly suspect that what occured was a reaction like some of our brain damaged posters here said they do - abusive of the physician and the staff for asking the question - and a dismissal (with coverage for care for a reasonable period of time until another doctor was found) for abusive behavior. This law has NOTHING to do with what is already established about patient abandonment. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/451 "2014-07-29T03:12:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Oakminster** you do not consider “injury” in the purview of medicine? I presume that when you are in a car accident you will not go the Emergency Room physician? Strawman fail. Treating injury is your job. Preventing it isn’t. You don’t give chainsaw safety lectures, you don’t give driving lessons, and you don’t teach gun safety. You’re a body mechanic, not a holy font of wisdom. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/452 "2014-07-29T03:22:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, its nothing like that at all. Pharmacists know a shitload more about drugs than doctors. Doctors frequently get educated about drugs from pharmacy reps and lectures, frequently sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. … Um, no we don’t. And even in the old days that was sales not education. > [@](#): > > … The Pharmacists job isn’t just to do whatever the fuck the doctor tells them. They are people. They understand better than most doctors what these drugs do … They have very little understanding of what drug is the right medicine for what condition and why. Their job is to be a level of doublecheck against drug drug interactions and dosing errors and to provide an educational service as required about the medication to the patient. Not to decide the medical care and treatment course. Not to over-rule the treatment course decided upon. And if they don’t know that Amox is now dosed at 80 to 100 mg/kg for otitis media in kids instead of the old 40 to 50 mg/kg, they call me and _verify_ that I meant it and then fill the damn script. If they falsely believe that a past Amox allergy means a high risk of an allergic reaction to Keflex they also call me and verify that such is what I really want to do. And I say yes and they do it. If they call me and ask did I really mean 1 tsp and not 1 ml they call me and sometimes, no, I made an error, and I thank them very much for catching it and calling me. They are an integral part of a system to check and double check so that the occassional human error does not have a chance to cause harm. Important professionals. But not the decision maker. That is the patient in partnership with the doctor. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/453 "2014-07-29T03:23:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Strawman fail. Treating injury is your job. Preventing it isn’t. You don’t give chainsaw safety lectures, you don’t give driving lessons, and you don’t teach gun safety. You’re a body mechanic, not a holy font of wisdom. Get over yourself. Idiocy success. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/454 "2014-07-29T03:38:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Idiocy success. :rolleyes: Disagreeing with you is not idiocy. I assume you’re a reasonably competent doctor. If I get banged up, you can fix whatever the problem is. Sew me up, set a bone, prescribe medication, cut out parts that aren’t working, whatever. I don’t give a fuck what you think on any other subject. Likewise, if you have a legal problem in my area, you can come to me and I’ll represent you. I can get you a bond set, negotiate a plea, see that you get a fair shake in a divorce, whatever needs to be done. You have no reason to give a fuck what I think on any other subject. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/455 "2014-07-29T04:54:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I assume you’re a reasonably competent doctor. If I get banged up, you can fix whatever the problem is. … Sorry. We peds take care of kids defined by chronological age. Your having the intellectual capicity of a toddler does not count. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/456 "2014-07-29T04:57:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Sorry. We peds take care of kids defined by chronological age. Your having the intellectual capicity of a toddler does not count. At least I can spell capacity. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/457 "2014-07-29T05:40:10Z")
You’re right, that’s the least. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/458 "2014-07-29T05:46:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Strawman fail. Treating injury is your job. Preventing it isn’t. You don’t give chainsaw safety lectures, you don’t give driving lessons, and you don’t teach gun safety. You’re a body mechanic, not a holy font of wisdom. Get over yourself. Once again, don’t you think asking about a pool is reasonable? Or car seats? Do you really think you’d get this viscerally upset over that? If not, maybe you have the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/459 "2014-07-29T05:47:26Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Treating injury is your job. Preventing it isn’t. […] > > I assume you’re a reasonably competent doctor. If I get banged up, you can fix whatever the problem is. Sew me up, set a bone, prescribe medication, cut out parts that aren’t working, whatever. I don’t give a fuck what you think on any other subject. Are you honestly just not aware of the concept of a [well child visit](http://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/health-management/Pages/Well-Child-Care-A-Check-Up-for-Success.aspx), or do you not know that it’s [a routine part of pediatric care](http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Updates-Schedule-of-Screening-and-Assessments-for-Well-Child-Visits.aspx), or what? > [@](#): > > Well-Child Care: A Check-Up for Success > > Immunizations are a big part of the preventive care visit, but talking about other topics can be helpful. **Pediatricians also address safety in the home and at the playground,** optimal nutrition, toilet training, and environmental concerns such as lead paint exposure. Emphasis added. **Oakminster** , you keep yabbering on about how you expect doctors to handle **your** medical treatment as an adult, but you seem to be totally ignoring the fact that this whole thread, and the law that inspired it, are specifically about how **pediatricians** should handle the preventive medical care of **young children**. For Pete’s sake, quit embarrassing yourself by acting as though it’s somehow unheard-of or outrageous for pediatricians to be proactively addressing the question of household safety with parents of young children. _ **That is generally and routinely recognized as a crucial part of their fucking JOB.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/460 "2014-07-29T06:11:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Do you really think you’d get this viscerally upset over that? If not, maybe you have the problem here. I’m not viscerally upset. I disagree with **DSeid.** I don’t think pediatricians have any business inquiring about guns in the household. I don’t accept this as a medical issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=24)