# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/41 "2011-05-07T20:02:55Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Telling the pediatrician to mind their own business is one thing, having the government regulate the pediatrician / parent relationship is another. Why is this law needed? Why does the government need to step into this relationship and regulate its terms? Can’t the poor widdle gun owners tell the big bad doctors to back off? Poor widdle gun owners need the po pos to step in. > > No, in all seriousness, I agree with those people who think it is none of the doctor’s business. I also see where the doctor is coming from; stories of accidental shootings by children are pretty common these days. Regardless, I see no reason for the government to regulate this and I am surprised about those conservatives who are always complaining about the “nanny state,” big government, and allowing professionals be true to their beliefs (i.e. pharmacists), being for this type of regulation. Oh, I’m not in favor of the law, I was just commenting on how I’d feel about a pediatrician giving me gun safety advice. I wouldn’t be immediately offended or anything, I’d just tell him I don’t need it so don’t bother. If he kept pressing on then I’d be offended that someone I’m paying to do work for me won’t shut up and actually give my kid a medical exam. I would hope any pediatrician I’m forking over my hard earned money to can still do his job as a _medical doctor_ without giving me as a parent a lecture. If he lectured me on something I was genuinely ignorant about, then I wouldn’t tell him to mind his own business and I’d probably be grateful. I don’t see a harm/foul in trying to give the gun safety advice, but I don’t see it as a problem if I say “I’ve already got that covered–thanks.” Nothing wrong with _offering,_ but I would have a problem if pediatricians as a rule made it a policy that they would not treat any patient whose parent refused to listen to their lectures. I’ve also said before when it comes to pharmacists, having known my grandfather who was a pharmacist for decades, he never would have thought it appropriate to ever get into personal details of a customer’s life in that way and would never use his own personal convictions when it came to dispensing medicines–so I don’t think pharmacists should do that either. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/42 "2011-05-07T20:03:47Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t have a pediatrician since I’m nearing pasture age and have no children of my own, but I think that I would refuse to answer most of those questions if a pediatrician asked them about my household if I took a hypothetical child to see him. All of these safety questions – about the storage of prescription medicines, about the car seat, about guns in the home, etc. – ARE asked by all the pediatricians at the medical group we take our child to, in a sense anyway. It’s on the developmenal checklist we have to fill out every time we take our child for a well-baby checkup. Right after the questions about how our child is eating, whether he is walking yet, etc. So the doctor doesn’t personally ask the questions but we give the answers anyway, in writing. I suppose there’s nothing stopping us from refusing to answer the questions on the checklist that we thought were too personal. I don’t know if the doctor would ask verbally then. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/43 "2011-05-07T20:10:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well **Jackmannii** there was a reason I opened this in The Pit and not GD. > > This is not about gun control or gun rights. This is about the ability of one group with a political agenda to infringe upon my freedom of speech and decide by legislative fiat what is and is not good medical practice, taking it upon themselves to say that they know better than do the professional medical bodies and individual professionals. > > **Martin** , you’d be amazed the good preventative guidance does. I get more adults to quit smoking than do most internists. I’ve gotten many kids to keep wearing their bike helmets in the face of their friends calling them dorks (and one call from a Mom who told me that the next week, after the kid started wearing it again, he’d had a fall and came in with a broken up helmet afraid Mom would be mad that he broke it). If you don’t want a pediatrician who believes in preventative guidance that’s fine. Don’t come to me if you don’t want to. No one is forcing you. > > Does gun safety get into the most important list? In some communities it most certainly does. Of homes that have guns and kids 43% have at least one gun stored both not in a locked location and without a trigger lock. Enough kids die from accidental gun injuries that some states mandate safe storage with “Child Access Prevention to Firearms” laws. Some states even make leaving a firearm loaded and in a location where it is reasonable to believe that a child might gain access to it a felony, and those states have seen a significant decrease in accidental firearm deaths among children. One of those states, ironically enough, is Florida. Their law is the oldest and most stringent and resulted in an over 50% decrease in accidental child deaths by firearms. But if this current law is signed it would a be criminal for a pediatrician to identify who to advise that there is an Access law and to discuss how to comply with it. > > You may not agree with the advice your doctor gives you. You may choose to ignore it. You may refuse to answer a question. Again, you have that right. If you do not like the speech I give as a doctor then don’t go to me. But do not infringe upon my right to say it because it might, or might not, be different that what you happen to think. Applause. Having just had a conversation with my eldest about helmet usage I can only say hooray. You can be my ped any day of the year. A ped should be free to bring up any subject they damned well please with their patients. My ped tells morons who don’t vaccinate to go elsewhere. Should the state force her to treat them? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/44 "2011-05-07T20:10:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well **Jackmannii** there was a reason I opened this in The Pit and not GD. > > This is not about gun control or gun rights. This is about the ability of one group with a political agenda to infringe upon my freedom of speech and decide by legislative fiat what is and is not good medical practice, taking it upon themselves to say that they know better than do the professional medical bodies and individual professionals. > > **Martin** , you’d be amazed the good preventative guidance does. I get more adults to quit smoking than do most internists. I’ve gotten many kids to keep wearing their bike helmets in the face of their friends calling them dorks (and one call from a Mom who told me that the next week, after the kid started wearing it again, he’d had a fall and came in with a broken up helmet afraid Mom would be mad that he broke it). If you don’t want a pediatrician who believes in preventative guidance that’s fine. Don’t come to me if you don’t want to. No one is forcing you. > > Does gun safety get into the most important list? In some communities it most certainly does. Of homes that have guns and kids 43% have at least one gun stored both not in a locked location and without a trigger lock. Enough kids die from accidental gun injuries that some states mandate safe storage with “Child Access Prevention to Firearms” laws. Some states even make leaving a firearm loaded and in a location where it is reasonable to believe that a child might gain access to it a felony, and those states have seen a significant decrease in accidental firearm deaths among children. One of those states, ironically enough, is Florida. Their law is the oldest and most stringent and resulted in an over 50% decrease in accidental child deaths by firearms. But if this current law is signed it would a be criminal for a pediatrician to identify who to advise that there is an Access law and to discuss how to comply with it. > > You may not agree with the advice your doctor gives you. You may choose to ignore it. You may refuse to answer a question. Again, you have that right. If you do not like the speech I give as a doctor then don’t go to me. But do not infringe upon my right to say it because it might, or might not, be different that what you happen to think. Well, I’m not infringing on anyone’s speech because 1) I’m not the government, 2) I don’t support this law in Florida, 3) I don’t live or vote in Florida. I’ve never said I thought preventative advice is bad or unnecessary, I’ve just said if a doctor started giving _me as a parent_ advice on how to properly store household chemicals or firearms I would politely tell them I had that handled myself and was not in need of the advice. Your example about bike helmets and smoking are of course different issues. I’d be fine with you giving my hypothetical-child advice on things like that, because a child may respect a non-parental authority figure more than a parent, kids being the beasts that they are. But I’m an adult and I would expect someone for whom I am the paying customer to respect my wishes to not receive certain lectures if I inform them I do not need said lecture. If you do not want my money because of that, I’m fairly certain I will not have difficulty finding another doctor. I do think that if every physician made it a rule that patients had to listen to lectures or not receive medical care, that could create a health care crisis and I **would** be in favor laws preventing that. So while I wouldn’t favor a law that criminalized speech of physicians, I might support a law which made it illegal for a physician to refuse to treat someone just because that person refused to listen to their lectures. I imagine perhaps the licensing authorities on state levels could achieve that with administrative rules instead of legislation, though. I know a guy who weighs 350 lbs. He’s told me on a few occasions he’s had to tell his doctor “I don’t need your advice on how to live my life.” This guy is 100% aware that his obesity is destroying his health, his mobility, and will almost certainly put him in an early grave. He’s told his doctor he doesn’t care and that he has no interest in losing weight. As a friend I wish the guy would lose weight, and I wish he’d listen to his doctor. However I think he should still be able to receive treatment even if he isn’t interested in listening to his doctor’s advice, he still needs routine medical care and diagnosis. While I can understand for some of his issues his doctor might say “if you do not do **y** , I can’t help you with **x** ” there is no reason that doctor should totally sever the patient-doctor relationship when there are still other services he will need from some physician. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/45 "2011-05-07T20:11:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Sorry. But FUCK YOU! [Moderating] **DSeid** , saying “fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the Pit’s language guidelines. Please avoid doing this in the future. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/46 "2011-05-07T20:12:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We have three children (13, 12, and 8 years old). I have always had guns strewn all over the house. Right now there are two rifles next to the front door, three next to the dresser in the bedroom, and one on the landing in the staircase. Handguns are sitting on shelves in the bedroom closet. None are loaded, in case you’re wondering. > > If a pediatrician asked about guns, I would simply tell him/her it was none of their fucking business. I’m guessing you live in a filthy hovel. Are your dishes on the floor too? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/47 "2011-05-07T20:20:00Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Pharmacists have also embedded themselves halfway into the legal system through licensing also, but I bet you have no problem letting them withhold their services when doing so matches your parochial world view, yes? I do. A doctor should not deny his services during his stated business hours for any reason other than patient harssment, threat, or delusion. And in fact, by virtue of medical training, doctors are indeed obligated more than the rest of us. I’m not saying I would support the law. Just that my heart isn’t bleeding for doctors. > [@merijeek](#): > > Cuz they gots too many endumacations, Cletus? And Merijeek demonstartes he’s an insulting asshole. What a surprise. No, genius, because doctors are consistently some of the most useless human beings I manage to meet. In between trying to prescribe things utterly irrelevant drugs, offering shoddy work and requiring uneccessary tests, and isdiagnosing ridiculously common complaints, I’ve pretty much had it with the medical profession. I eventually broke down and performed goddamn _minor surgery_ on myself because they were too full of themselves to bother. The last useful doctor I encountered was somewhere in the late Bush 1 or early Clinton administration. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/48 "2011-05-07T20:23:04Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > And Merijeek demonstartes he’s an insulting asshole. What a surprise. > > No, genius, because doctors are consistently some of the most useless human beings I manage to meet. In between trying to prescribe things utterly irrelevant drugs, offering shoddy work and requiring uneccessary tests, and isdiagnosing ridiculously common complaints, I’ve pretty much had it with the medical profession. I eventually broke down and performed goddamn _minor surgery_ on myself because they were too full of themselves to bother. The last useful doctor I encountered was somewhere in the late Bush 1 or early Clinton administration. Maybe you could self-prescribe some anti-psychotics? 😃 Maybe you’ve been unlucky, or maybe you expect something more from doctors than they are set up to give? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/49 "2011-05-07T20:36:06Z")
Perhaps there’s more to the story than the pediatrician asking the question, the parent refusing to answer, and the doctor then refusing service. I’m supposing there was an argument, the patient was belligerent, the doctor finally had enough. I know many gun owners, and they are not the same thing as gun nuts. But I also know gun nuts, and they are always spoiling for a fight. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/50 "2011-05-07T20:40:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The reason I don’t feel those issues are within the proper relationship (again, for my hypo-child only, not all children/pediatrician relationships in general) is because I do not believe it is the role of a pediatrician to help me safeguard my house against accidents. I’m not opposed to the questions as a concept, but I personally would just say “Don’t worry I’m not an idiot so I know how to take care of my own house.” I would hope the doctor (who I am paying and is thus someone who is supposed to be providing me a service) would back off at that point. When a patient says to me, “I’m not an idiot,” I won’t say I immediately assume that he’s an idiot, but it raises the odds considerably. There’s a lot to know about safety. I learned something new every day when I was on my pediatrics rotations–I didn’t realize that walkers were dangerous and counterproductive, I never thought about how standard hot water temperature can be dangerous for kids, and I wasn’t aware that experts recommend no television viewing whatsoever for kids under 2. How would anyone know such things if someone didn’t tell them? I suppose you can read such things for yourself, but I’m guessing that the type of person who gets pissy when the doctor asks about basic home safety issues isn’t going to read a book on the subject. We all pick things up here and there, but do you really want your child’s safety to depend on shit you picked up here and there? A resident told me about a patient a while back whose father kept a loaded gun in his nightstand. When asked what he did to keep his son away from it, the father answered “I told him that if I caught him in that drawer, I’d whoop him.” I’m willing to bet that man doesn’t think he’s an idiot. I don’t give a shit about anybody’s guns. I think if you want a closet full of assault rifles and a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher, that’s your right as an American. (I might roll my eyes at you, but that’s _my_ right as an American.) The main thing I want is for your kid not to shoot himself or someone else. The secondary thing that I want is to not get my balls sued off when your kid shoots himself or someone else and my records show that I didn’t counsel you on gun safety. Even if 95% of people have the sense to take basic precautions, that means 5% don’t, and I see them too, and it’s amazing just how much that 5% looks like the other 95%. The main difference is that the 5% are far more likely to think they know everything they need to know. So in short, fuck this (proposed) law. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/51 "2011-05-07T20:42:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Almost certainly. States have pretty broad powers to limit the activities of professionals subject to licensing requirements, at least while they’re at work. That is true as a general proposition, but in the specific area of regulating what doctors may tell their patients, courts have been pretty restrictive about what states and the feds can do. See, e.g., Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 884 (1992); Rust v. Sullivan, 500 U.S. 173, 200 (1991); Florida Bar v. Went For It, Inc., 515 U.S. 618, 634 (1995) (this one’s about lawyers); Nat’l Ass’n for the Advancement of Psychoanalysis v. California Bd. of Psychology, 228 F.3d 1043 (9th Cir. 2000). In the Eleventh Circuit? Hard to say what they’d do. But I’d say the odds of this surviving First Amendment challenge are not better than 70%, even if they are not worse than 30%. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/52 "2011-05-07T20:54:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > U]Nat’l Ass’n for the Advancement of Psychoanalysis v. California Bd. of Psychology, 228 F.3d 1043 (9th Cir. 2000). I haven’t read the others yet, but that opinion _upheld_ all of the California legislature’s restrictions… Did you mean to cite something else? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/53 "2011-05-07T21:00:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I haven’t read the others yet, but that opinion _upheld_ all of the California legislature’s restrictions… > > Did you mean to cite something else? No. That is the Court’s holding. But the reasoning is what is relevant here. The Court applies standard First Amendment analysis to the regulation of psychologist speech, a standard with an arguably quite different result when applied to the law discussed in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/54 "2011-05-07T21:07:35Z")
Ah. I see what you’re saying now: [QUOTE=9th Circuit] This case is different from Riley v. National Fed’n of the Blind , 487 U.S. 781 (1988). In Riley, the Supreme Court held that North Carolina’s licensing laws for professional fund raisers violated the First Amendment because the state had “the power directly and substantially to affect the speech they utter.” Id. at 801. California does not dictate the content of what is said in therapy; the state merely determines who is qualified as a mental health professional. Mental health professionals, unlike fundraisers, safeguard public health interests by monitoring the care and safety of their patients. [/QUOTE] I stand properly corrected. Well, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/55 "2011-05-07T21:19:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Maybe you’ve been unlucky, or maybe you expect something more from doctors than they are set up to give? Decent medical care. I really just needed someone to do the job using professional materials so I didn’t have to carve open my own flesh where I have a hard time seeing using blunter self-sterilized instruments than I’d prefer. Of course, they offered to do it… but one issue at a time and only if I paid for expensive, irrelevant tests I don’t pretend I’m unbiased in this. I watch with gleeful rejoicing whenever the medical profession is humiliated in any way. But I’ve been none too pleased with doctors trying to grab total control of your genetic information, lock down competition so there’re fewer doctors with an expanding and aging population. There’s a deep-seated arrogance in the profession, despite doctors not exactly being at the forefront of medical innovation since the time of Imhotep. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/56 "2011-05-07T21:30:03Z")
What “expensive, irrelevant” tests did they want to perform before carving you up, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/57 "2011-05-07T21:31:52Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I don’t pretend I’m unbiased in this. Do you pretend to be sane? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/58 "2011-05-07T21:44:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which would be your right. > > I am curious though. Why do you think it is none of your child’s doctor’s business to ask about risk factors in the house? Do you feel your child’s doctor is out of line to ask about whether there are presciption medicines are in the house and how they are stored and making sure that you have the number for Poison Control? Is the doctor out of line for engaging in a discussion about how teens abuse parents prescription meds sometimes and that storing them and disposing of them safely is advised? Do you feel your child’s doctor is out of line for advising that your child is kept in a car seat for longer than you may think is needed? Is a doctor who asks the parent of a teen about alcohol in a house and how it is stored and monitored and who informs a parent of the risks associated with teen binge drinking also out of line? Am I out of line for making a big deal over bike helmets? For trying to be proactive in preventing childhood obesity? > > If the answer is “no” to any of those things, then why is your child’s doctor wanting to ask about guns different? I personally believe all those things are out of line for one reason. You are only there to deal with the situation at hand. When I am sick, I do not want to be harassed, and I do avoid the doctors who do this. I can see part of the prescription one being relevant–when you are prescribing the medicine. Giving directions on what to do with the medicine you are prescribing is in your purview. While asking about other medications is okay when making sure there is no reaction to what you prescribe, it is not within your purview to tell me what to do with them. I only recognize a doctor’s right to butt into my life in an emergency. My safety and health are not your concern outside of the limited issue for which I am paying you. It’s noble you want to help, but that’s not what I’m paying you for. Do that on your own time, not on the job. For example, if I came in with, say, diabetes, it would be relevant to talk to me about my weight, as reducing that that can help treat that situation. If I come in for strep throat, it’s entirely inappropriate. In fact, I reported a doctor who did just that. She did it to enough people that the main doctor fired her for bad bedside manner. As for this law–it would be entirely based on whether the doctor was refusing to provide services due to his questions. If not, of course you have a right to ask questions I consider to be rude. If so, sorry. I believe in a right to healthcare. It is an essential service, and you should not be able to just kick people out like a regular business owner. And if the only way to insure you won’t do that is to prevent you from asking the question, then so be it. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can tell people about my medical records, either. As for the other crap that’s in this thread: no, pharmacists should not be able to refuse prescriptions, and, no, I do not own a gun nor really ever have had an interest in owning one. You’ll note I believe in a right to healthcare–I’m not a conservative in any real sense. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/59 "2011-05-07T21:44:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > **DSeid** , saying “fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the Pit’s language guidelines. Please avoid doing this in the future. > > No warning issued. > [/Moderating] You know, I should read those stickies. I stopped caring at the start of the cunt debacle and have not kept up. Knowing that I was angry enough about this that I would want to swear at any one who dared to defend this stupid law was why I brought it here, to the Pit. Live and learn. Well, whatever expletive I can say to him then. Fill it in. 🙂 **Martin** this law is not about doctors kicking patients out or somehow forcing patients to listen to a lecture. (If only I could!) It is about criminalizing even asking about guns and gun safety. As far as kicking patients out of a practice goes … I do know a few who kick out those who will not vaccinate their kids. I do not. I have kicked out patients who have been verbally abusive of my staff (me they can be abusive to, although they usually take out whatever angst they have on my staff and not me, it drives staff crazy that to me the biggest abusive loons are all sweetness and light), those who have been multiple repeat no-shows, long time non-payers who won’t cooperate in developing a payment plan, any payment plan, and pretty much that’s it. I know of internists who have kicked out patients for failure to comply with recommendations - like not getting clotting levels checked while on anticoagulants, and for forging scripts. And those who are suing them. I have never known of someone being kicked out for refusing to answer a question or for a political belief or practice. And even when I do kick people out I cannot abandon them. I need to give at least 30 days notice, and be available for medical emergencies until they have found another doctor. To do otherwise leaves me exposed for malpractice. Yes, I am sure that the Mom who was kicked out was not just refusing to answer, she was abusing the staff in front of other patient families about it. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. Kicking her out for a polite failure to answer a question would actually already be disallowed under the patient abandonment guidelines I think. As to continuing a line of questioning that has been made clear is unwelcome … well sometimes I need to, but as part of preventative care doing so is ultimately counterproductive and at least I know that. Ultimately preventative care is sales and a hard sell usually is not the best sell. I _can_ sometimes get those who already “know” what they need to know engaged in a discussion of what they know and sometimes each of us can learn something in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/60 "2011-05-07T21:49:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well, whatever expletive I can say to him then. Fill it in. 🙂 “Hug?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=4)