# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/621 "2014-08-01T14:16:20Z")
Well, maybe this isn’t that much of a setback, there are other ways to get the needed information for the confiscation database. Or, you could get one of those humongous syringes with the harpoon-like needle on it and go, like, “OK, Timmy, now this won’t hurt a bit, unless I use _this_ needle, and I won’t have to do that if you tell me the truth! Now, does your Mommy and Daddy have any guns?..” I mean, we might have to be a bit more creative, but heck… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/622 "2014-08-01T14:55:26Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > …Stop it! You’re proving **elucidator** wrong. He hates that. Yeah, you guys are killing me here. What with **Bricker** ’s rock solid citations, and your keen analytical skills, I feel kinda like Magic Johnson being double-teamed by Prof Hawking and Stevie Wonder… ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/623 "2014-08-01T15:31:03Z")
It amazes me how if you don’t like your pharmacist for \*not \*doing his job, you can just suck it up and go find yourself another pharmacist, but if you don’t like your doctor for \*doing \*his job, there’s got to be a fucking law crafted to make him do what you want. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/624 "2014-08-01T15:41:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > … and at the same time also realize that the AAP is anti-gun… About that. How do you figure that happened? I know a couple pharmacists, its a long slog through lots and lots of schooling, so its definitely not a matter of a lack of education. Bound to have a smattering of understanding statistics, stuff like that. And yet, there they are, at odds with your brilliant and cogent position! So, assuming that they are totally off-base and you are totally right…how’d that happen? Did they get ruthlessly indoctrinated in pharmacy school, or did it happen earlier than that? There they are, relatively smart and educated, and yet somehow they seem to think you are full of beans. How did such a perverse situation come about? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/625 "2014-08-01T15:56:24Z")
Tell me you wouldn’t be tempted to pop a couple in your mouth when nobody was looking, once in a while… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/626 "2014-08-01T15:57:28Z")
By which I mean pills, of course. Not children. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/627 "2014-08-01T16:10:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > About that. How do you figure that happened? I know a couple pharmacists, its a long slog through lots and lots of schooling, so its definitely not a matter of a lack of education. Bound to have a smattering of understanding statistics, stuff like that. The AAP aren’t pharmacists. It refers to the American Academy of Pediatrics. It’s doctors who treat children. You know, the group that we’ve been talking about for many pages? The group who’s web page we’ve been citing multiple times? I thought you read cites? I mean, you told us so yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/628 "2014-08-01T16:11:46Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > It amazes me how if you don’t like your pharmacist for \*not \*doing his job, you can just suck it up and go find yourself another pharmacist, but if you don’t like your doctor for \*doing \*his job, there’s got to be a fucking law crafted to make him do what you want. I’m curious. Who is this directed towards? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/629 "2014-08-01T16:13:35Z")
> [@](#): > > By which I mean pills, of course. Not children. These days, pretty much pot, chamomile tea and the occasional St. John’s Wort. Anything more pharmaceutical, interferes with X-Box. So, nah. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/630 "2014-08-01T16:18:43Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > The AAP aren’t pharmacists. > > It refers to the American Academy of Pediatrics. It’s doctors who treat children. You know, the group that we’ve been talking about for many pages? The group who’s web page we’ve been citing multiple times? > > I thought you read cites? I mean, you told us so yourself. So, if I rephrase, put in “pediatricians” rather than “pharmacists”, you’ll have an answer? I’m guessing not, but you are welcome to astonish me… ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/631 "2014-08-01T16:21:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > It amazes me how if you don’t like your pharmacist for \*not \*doing his job, you can just suck it up and go find yourself another pharmacist, but if you don’t like your doctor for \*doing \*his job, there’s got to be a fucking law crafted to make him do what you want. > [@Debaser](#): > > I’m curious. Who is this directed towards? I donate it to the world for everyone’s personal enjoyment. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/632 "2014-08-01T16:24:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > About that. How do you figure that happened? Selection bias. Doctors treat gun shot victims. They don’t get to eat the tasty venison that comes from a successful hunt. They don’t experience the enjoyment others get at the range. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/633 "2014-08-01T16:26:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, if I rephrase, put in “pediatricians” rather than “pharmacists”, you’ll have an answer? I’m guessing not, but you are welcome to astonish me… So you know a couple of Pharmacists and a couple of Pediatricians? No. I don’t need to answer when the question remains so flawed. Now that you’ve at least got the group of people we’re talking about right we can move on to the premise of your question. The appeal to authority in your question assumes that all or most Pediatricians are anti-gun, thus that’s the intelligent position. This hasn’t been shown. What’s true is that the AAP, which is the organization of Pediatricians at the national level, is anti-gun. We don’t have any evidence that most pediatricians are. They might be, but who knows. Do you have a cite for this premise that your question is based on? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/634 "2014-08-01T16:36:57Z")
Boy, you got me there! No reason to believe that a group comprised of pediatricians reflects the views of pediatricians. Should have known better than to mess with a smart cookie like you! Are you trying to suggest that an elite cabal of anti-gun fanatics seized control and imposed their will on the rest of the pediatricians? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/635 "2014-08-01T16:50:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are you trying to suggest that an elite cabal of anti-gun fanatics seized control and imposed their will on the rest of the pediatricians? Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying. :rolleyes: I’ve asked you not to do this. Twice. If you don’t have anything substantive to add just try not responding. It would be better than making up something silly and attributing it to me. You really should stick to the sidelines, tossing out your occasional snarky reply, safe in the knowledge that most people here agree with you. That way you can’t get in much trouble. When you actually get engaged in a debate on anything it quickly becomes obvious that you can’t even follow along with the discussion, much less add any meaningful content to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/636 "2014-08-01T16:59:24Z")
Oh, OK, that isn’t what you are saying? Fair enough! What is? You said this, right? This was you, yes? > [@](#): > > …What’s true is that the AAP, which is the organization of Pediatricians at the national level, is anti-gun… Followed by this: > [@](#): > > …We don’t have any evidence that most pediatricians are. They might be, but who knows. Do you have a cite for this premise that your question is based on? … So, the leadership of the group is anti-gun, but that doesn’t mean the rank and file is? Or does it mean something else? Is there another option? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/637 "2014-08-01T16:59:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is a statement that deserves a second look. > > After years of hearing precisely this sentiment – that gun rights were safe and no one was going to make any effort to dramatically change that status quo, Sandy Hook brought about a brief but very serious attempt to do just that. True, it failed. But you cannot deny that for a fair fraction of the Democratic leadership, the will was there, and they made a serious effort to impose major gun restrictions. But what’s the take-away from that… (1) The most horrifying school shooting in history (because of the age of the kids) happened, while there was a democratic president, and a democratic senate, and STILL nothing ended up happening, proving how unlikely it is that anything will ever happen or (2) A bunch of people talked REALLY SERIOUSLY about gun control for a while before giving up, so that means we must NEVER RELAX OUR VIGILANCE!!! I mean, obviously, if gun rights are important to you, you should continue to vote for legislators who support gun rights. But I think you’re smart enough to realize that an “OMG our gun rights are UNDER ASSAULT at EVERY TURN and we are mere MOMENTS from the time when JACK BOOTED FEDERAL THUGS come BURSTING IN and TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS” (and the equivalent) is pure hysterical BS. > [@](#): > > I don’t agree. Any statistics you show me will me lumping my specific circumstances in with lots of people who don’t approach the issue of gun ownership with nearly the same kind of attention and analysis as I do. > > It’s like telling me that, statistically, I have a 0.3% chance of contracting an STD in my lifetime, because that’s the average rate for men in the country. But I have a completely monogamous sexual relationship with my wife, who in turn is completely monogamous with me. That doesn’t mean my chance is literally zero, of course – I could be captured and ravished by rapacious, but unfortunately diseased, Amazons. But the numbers for me are not meaningfully calculated by reference to the entire adult population. You are certainly right about that. At the same time, I’m not 100% convinced that your initial claim, which is that owning a gun makes you, overall, safer, is one that can be statistically supported. There would have to be some AWFULLY specific statistics to show that for people with your level of gun care and safety precautions, with family members in the age range of your family members, living in a neighborhood as dangerous as your neighborhood, etc., etc., owning a gun increases their odds of preventing a violent crime more than it either increases the odds of a non-violent crime turning violent, or increases the odds of a tragic accident. If you have actual statistics backing up your claim, I’d like to see them. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/638 "2014-08-01T17:14:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, OK, that isn’t what you are saying? Fair enough! What is? > > You said this, right? This was you, yes? > > Followed by this: > > So, the leadership of the group is anti-gun, but that doesn’t mean the rank and file is? Or does it mean something else? Is there another option? Hey quit it you’re making him look like a conspiracy theory nut job. While **Debaser** may belong to groups that often fall prey to conspiracy theories, and **Debaser** may promote conspiracy theories. He doesn’t want to be known as a conspiracy theory nut, so you are wrong to imply he is. See how this works, his opinion is more important than the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/639 "2014-08-01T17:15:03Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So should they NOT, as their official organizational position, say “you should not have guns, but if you do…”? For ethical reasons (ie, it’s not their place)? Or for practical reasons (it’s just going to piss people off, who will then not keep reading)? I guess a bit of both. I think that if their approach to pools is not to say “get rid of your pool but if you MUST have a pool then…” but to merely provide information about risks and precautions, then I think they are letting something other than clinical criteria drive their policy when they say “get rid of your guns but if you must have guns them…” considering that pools are much more dangerous to have than guns when it comes to accidental deaths. > [@](#): > > I don’t know if there is IS any evidence that can be presented… maybe it’s just that this conversation: > Doctor: “OK, young parents, before you take your baby home, we’d like to ask you some questions to help you make your house safe… do you own guns?” > Parents: “That’s honestly none of your business” > D: “You MUST answer the question” > P: “That’s honestly none of your business” > D: “Then this visit is over” > > seems vastly less likely than this: > > D:“OK, young parents, before you take your baby home, we’d like to ask you some questions to help you make your house safe… do you own guns?” > P:“How DARE you question the second amendment you liberal pussy!!!” > D: “Please control your attitude” > P: (storms out, and then later tells people about how the doctor wouldn’t continue the exam unless the gun question was answered) > > But I admit that that’s just speculation on my part. Some people are insensitive assholes, and they can certainly include doctors. I’m just going by what some other poster said about a court case that precipitated this law. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/640 "2014-08-01T17:46:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, the leadership of the group is anti-gun, but that doesn’t mean the rank and file is? Or does it mean something else? Is there another option? There are plenty of options. You are the one who seems to assume that all or most pediatricians are anti-gun. I’m questioning that assumption. You’re the one claiming to know what they all think. It’s now up to you to prove it. I’ve admitted that I don’t know. That’s the great thing about saying “I don’t know.” I can’t be wrong. Even if your assumption that your question was based on is correct, it’s still by definition an appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy. So it’s admittedly a waste of time for you to even bother proving your assumption is true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=33)