# Fukkin Facist Florida Firearm Fanatics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066 "2011-05-07T14:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/161 "2011-05-08T21:43:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > > [@Projammer](#): > > > > That’s pretty much the natural reaction to the gun control crowd refering to every success as “a good first step” when it’s obvious their last step goal is that no one will have any firearms at all. > > And the voice of the delusionally paranoid cohort that gives the reasoned voices a bad rep. Neither delusion, nor paranoid. If Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) were handed their wish list of “reasonable measures” on a silver platter next week, do you really believe they would say “Our work here is done, let’s go home now.” Or would the conversation be more along the lines of “That was a good first step, what limitations can we push for next?” Based on the actions of the group as a whole, and the individuals comprising it, a more accurate name would be Mayors Against Firearms In America. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/162 "2011-05-08T21:47:11Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Neither delusion, nor paranoid. If Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) were handed their wish list of “reasonable measures” on a silver platter next week, do you really believe they would say “Our work here is done, let’s go home now.” Or would the conversation be more along the lines of “That was a good first step, what limitations can we push for next?” > > Based on the actions of the group as a whole, and the individuals comprising it, a more accurate name would be Mayors Against Firearms In America. Even in rabidly anti-gun Britain, you can still own a firearm, subject to limitations. Do you think Mayors Against Illegal Guns (whoever they are) looks at the UK and thinks, “now, those fellows are onto something, but they’re not quite there yet”? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/163 "2011-05-08T21:49:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’ll pass, thanks. What did you mean by “directing the effort toward vehicle accident prevention”, then? Paediatricians already routinely counsel parents regarding child seats and other vehicle safety issues, according to the ones who have posted in this thread. Nothing more than by and large that category continues to be the statistically most significant. Best bang for your effort would be to concentrate efforts there rather than scatter gunning away at a bunch of issues that are statistically insignificant in comparison. 😃 Seriously though, let me ask this. Is the intent of the Pediatrician’s questioning to inform parents on gun safety, or intended to result in the removal of firearms from the home and community? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/164 "2011-05-08T21:55:39Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Nothing more than by and large that category continues to be the statistically most significant. Best bang for your effort would be to concentrate efforts there rather than scatter gunning away at a bunch of issues that are statistically insignificant in comparison. 😃 :smack: What do you actually want them to _do_ that they don’t already? > [@](#): > > Seriously though, let me ask this. Is the intent of the Pediatrician’s questioning to inform parents on gun safety, or intended to result in the removal of firearms from the home and community? Unless you have some reason to believe that paediatricians, as a group, are mostly gun control advocates, you already know the answer: the first. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/165 "2011-05-08T21:58:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I don’t see why you think it’s non-medical to concern themselves with gun safety. Haven’t said it wasn’t. First, I am not convinced that gun safety is their aim, when the stated goals of American Academy of Pediatrics is the removal of guns from the home and community. And no I really don’t care about the second amendment, but I would like an honest answer to the purpose. Second, If they are truly interested only in gun safety in the home, then I question the approach on the grounds that as practiced they are failing to target some of the potentially highest risk households for gun accidents and violence. Those that lie and say no to the question. In essence they are preaching to the honest and conscientious gun owners. Perhaps still of value, but probably doing far less good than preaching to the dishonest and antisocial. Those with illegal guns or that would use guns to solve problems. Maybe they should be checking the households? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/166 "2011-05-08T22:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Design. Settings and Participants. Twelve pediatric practices in New England were paired according to practice size and assigned randomly within pairs to deliver the multicomponent interventions, which built on pediatric primary care clinicians performing as counselors and role models during health supervision visits and other office encounters. > [@](#): > > Chart audit verified that the intervention was implemented. Additional data from interviews and surveys showed that parents, children, and pediatric clinicians found the intervention useful. Despite this, comparisons between the 2 study arms show no significant intervention effects in the prevention of alcohol and tobacco use or gun storage or seatbelt safety. There was a negative effect in the alcohol arm. Only bicycle helmet use showed a positive outcome. […comparisons between the 2 study arms show no significant intervention effects in the prevention of alcohol and tobacco use or gun storage…](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/109/3/490) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/167 "2011-05-08T22:13:22Z")
Skipped a large part of the thread, but it comes down to my basic principle in dealing with professionals of any kind; _“Professionals work for you. If they don’t work for you, find another.”_ If I had a kid and my Pediatrician started harping on my guns, he would instantly be my EX-Pediatrician. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/168 "2011-05-08T22:15:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Unless you have some reason to believe that paediatricians, as a group, are mostly gun control advocates, you already know the answer: the first. In that case I think their approach is all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/169 "2011-05-08T22:20:13Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > In essence they are preaching to the honest and conscientious gun owners. Perhaps still of value, but probably doing far less good than preaching to the dishonest and antisocial. Those with illegal guns or that would use guns to solve problems. You’re excluding a very large middle, that is, “honest and conscientious gun owners who are not aware of the rate of firearms accidents, and who would benefit from a little guidance on the intersection of guns and children.” Your statement assumes the dishonest and antisocial would actually act on any advice given, which is also slightly ridiculous. > [@](#): > > Maybe they should be checking the households? Why would they do a stupid thing like that? My pediatrician doesn’t check my house to make sure I’ve put the little plastic jobbies in all the outlets and secured all the cabinet doors, either. Seriously, what are some of you people picturing here? I’m picturing a brief speech from the pediatrician along the lines of “here’s a few things you can do now that they’re going to be moving more: Do you have guns? Check how you store them. Power tools? Check how you store them. Non-GFCI outlets? Cover 'em. Have you got a bigger car seat since you left the hospital? Did you have it’s installation checked by a pro? Do you want me to do that?” But then again, I’m due for that exact speech in a month (last checkup, I got a “Next time, I’ll go over the babyproofing list with you guys.”), so I’ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/170 "2011-05-08T22:21:46Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > In that case I think their approach is all wrong. Okay, so what should they do instead? I mean, you can obviously read and write, and appear to be able to think logically, so I assume you’re not seriously arguing that they should be inspecting people’s homes. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/171 "2011-05-08T22:40:44Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I guess I shouldn’t have expected any better. To assume I am pro gun, or think the OP is a socialist is simply being stereotypical. Sorry, should have put in a paragraph break. I wasn’t meaning to target you, merely the general concept of ‘doctors and their agendas’. In the spirit of full disclosure, I should point out that I am a socialist, since I live and work in Soviet Canuckistan, a.k.a. Canada. > [@Hbns](#): > > I’ve never smoked. Never had to answer yes to the smoking question. Never been warned about the dangers of smoking by a doctor. Is there no potential that I could become a smoker? Is the doctor not interested in mitigating the dangers to my health until I have taken up an unhealthy practice? Mostly when someone says ‘I don’t smoke’, the doctors that I know say “Excellent, don’t start, nyuk nyuk nyuk.” > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > "I can’t ask if you have a gun so I’ll just give you general information about guns. And I can’t ask if you smoke so I’ll just give you general advice about smoking. And I can’t ask if you have unprotected sex so I’ll just give you general advice about unprotected sex. I can’t ask about gay sex, so here’s some information about gay sex. I can’t ask about smoking heroin, but here’s some information about smoking heroin. I can’t ask about sex in a squirrel costume, so here’s some infurmation… Way to make me feel square, Doc. > [@MandaJo](#): > > They do. When you have a baby, they walk you out to the parking lot and physically make sure you have a car seat and installed it correctly. It comes up a hundred times more often and in more detail than gun safety because it is a larger risk. No one actually checks to see if you have locked up your guns safely: they just advise you. But if you think it’s ok for doctors to concern themselves with vehicle safely (which they do), I don’t see why you think it’s non-medical to concern themselves with gun safety. No shit. We almost couldn’t get our kid out of the hospital due to the car seat de-installation/ look it’s a car seat / re-installation process. > [@Chimera](#): > > If I had a kid and my Pediatrician started harping on my guns, he would instantly be my EX-Pediatrician. Great, but we’re not talking harping. We’re talking: “Gotta gun?” “Yup, keep 'em locked up in the vault, very safe” “Cool, well done. What kind, I’ve been thinking of getting a Benelli for turkey, whaddaya think” Is illegal While: “Smoke?” “Yup, but outside, not around the little fella” “Cool, well done. I’m trying to quit myself, and we probably both oughtta” Is fine. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, so what should they do instead? I mean, you can obviously read and write, and appear to be able to think logically, so I assume you’re not seriously arguing that they should be inspecting people’s homes. Paging Dr. House. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/172 "2011-05-08T22:50:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You don’t do your argument any favors by referring to states with strong gun control laws as “fascist”, you know. I’m just going along with what seems to be en vogue at the moment. Did you actually read the thread title? Aside from the typo it is also using the word fascist… ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/173 "2011-05-08T22:59:22Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You’re excluding a very large middle, that is, “honest and conscientious gun owners who are not aware of the rate of firearms accidents, and who would benefit from a little guidance on the intersection of guns and children.” Already linked to evidence that such guidance and intersection is ineffective. > [@](#): > > Your statement assumes the dishonest and antisocial would actually act on any advice given, which is also slightly ridiculous. I assume no such thing. I guess that only some smallish percentage of any group would act on their advice, so why automatically limit the scope of delivery. > [@](#): > > Why would they do a stupid thing like that? My pediatrician doesn’t check my house to make sure I’ve put the little plastic jobbies in all the outlets and secured all the cabinet doors, either. And I bet they didn’t ask if you had electricity or poisons in the home. I know, every household has those items. Well if you believe the words of the American Academy of Pediatrics with regard to firearms [“…child health care professionals can and should provide effective leadership in efforts to stem this epidemic.”](http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;105/4/888) then surely we can be a bit presumptive about firearms in the home. They are treating an epidemic as it were. > [@](#): > > Seriously, what are some of you people picturing here? I’m picturing a brief speech from the pediatrician along the lines of “here’s a few things you can do now that they’re going to be moving more: Do you have guns? Check how you store them. Power tools? Check how you store them. Non-GFCI outlets? Cover 'em. Have you got a bigger car seat since you left the hospital? Did you have it’s installation checked by a pro? Do you want me to do that?” I think that would be perfectly acceptable. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case with firearms. Or rather, not how the American Academy of Pediatrics would like to see it played out as evidenced by their statements and suggestions. > [@](#): > > The AAP affirms that the most effective measure to prevent firearm-related injuries to children and adolescents is the absence of guns from homes and communities. > [@](#): > > Firearm regulation, to include bans of handguns and assault weapons, is the most effective way to reduce firearm-related injuries. > [@](#): > > The AAP recommends that pediatricians incorporate questions about guns into their patient history taking and urge parents who possess guns to remove them, especially handguns, from the home. > [@](#): > > In addition, until existing guns are no longer present in the environments of children, educational efforts should continually inform parents of the hazards of guns and safety measures. All from the policy paper linked above. One can find much less dramatic statements (and downright sensible ones) in advocacy papers produced by this group. However, as is typical in this day and age, we latch onto the most extreme and confrontational statements presented. Which is how we end up at a place where legislation is trying to be passed to make the question off limits. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/174 "2011-05-08T23:03:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m just going along with what seems to be en vogue at the moment. Did you actually read the thread title? Aside from the typo it is also using the word fascist… It’s a fair cop. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/175 "2011-05-08T23:04:53Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Great, but we’re not talking harping. Oh shit. That was my whole premise, well and something about it being an ineffectual question. Oh hell. Seems I am out gunned. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/176 "2011-05-08T23:12:12Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > However, that doesn’t seem to be the case with firearms. Or rather, not how the American Academy of Pediatrics would like to see it played out as evidenced by their statements and suggestions. I’d actually be curious to see the number of practicing pediatricians who share those beliefs. And, for that matter, the percentage of kids who are seeing “pediatricians” vs. “family practitioners” who are in vogue right now at least in my area. As for asking about things, my baby’s doc started lecturing us about not starting solid food until 6 months. When she was two days old. 😛 I bet he DOES bring up household safety items other than guns. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/177 "2011-05-08T23:40:21Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’d actually be curious to see the number of practicing pediatricians who share those beliefs. I’d be interested too. I don’t think it proves a whole lot though. This was a politically motivated bill to make a political statement. One association (NRA) taking a relatively extreme position contrary to an opposing association’s (APP) relatively extreme position. Eliminate the rhetoric and posturing from both those groups and there just really isn’t anything for me to take issue with. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/178 "2011-05-09T02:04:57Z")
Sorry about my post #66 and #99. I take back what I said. I wasn’t in a good mood when I posted those and they don’t reflect how I feel ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/179 "2011-05-09T02:24:56Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I’d be interested too. I don’t think it proves a whole lot though. This was a politically motivated bill to make a political statement. One association (NRA) taking a relatively extreme position contrary to an opposing association’s (APP) relatively extreme position. > > Eliminate the rhetoric and posturing from both those groups and there just really isn’t anything for me to take issue with. I like how you contrast the two positions as extreme and somehow equal. One side want to push forward their political agenda in interest in preventing accident deaths of children and does so by encouraging their members to voice their concerns while allowing the other side to do the same. The other side wants to push forward their agenda by voicing their concerns but finds that allowing the other side to voice their concerns should be criminalized. One side seems to be encouraging Democratic process the other seems to favor a larger government enforcing fascist laws. Strangely enough(well not really) the Republicans have decided larger government intrusion is necessary in this case, putting the government between doctors and patients to rather stomp out those with a dissenting opinion via legislative fiat. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066/180 "2011-05-09T02:32:58Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Seriously though, let me ask this. Is the intent of the Pediatrician’s questioning to inform parents on gun safety, or intended to result in the removal of firearms from the home and community? Depending on the individual either the first alone, or, to their read of the evidence, both. It is true that the AAP, our official body, like most of the medical groups, has come down on the side of saying that handguns in particular should be under much tighter controls, and the AAP does state that the ideal from the POV of child safety is to have no guns in the house. Individual doctors’ thoughts vary of course. Most who believe that no guns is the best circumstance are still however pragmatists. We may also believe that the only completely safe sex is abstinence but we don’t expect that message to be accepted all that completely either and are also eager to make sure that those who are having sex know how to decrease their risk of disease or unintended parenthood. I suspect for those docs it is like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fukkin-facist-florida-firearm-fanatics/581066.md?page=10)