# Full asking price for peace: $65 Billion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2000, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320 "2000-01-12T12:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/21 "2000-01-13T01:01:00Z")
You fail to mention that we gave Israel 5 billion a year in the eighties and just recently cut it down to 3 billion. You must realize that over the decade of the eighties alone we gave Israel about 50 billion dollars, which, for a nation that size, is no paltry sum. We should not leave Egypt out of this equation, which got about 35 billion over the same period. I say we have to cut it back. 3 billion could educate and feed a lot of American poor. * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![Felice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Felice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felice)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/22 "2000-01-13T01:06:00Z")
Can I ask what the USS Liberty has to do with anything? * * * Felice “Everything, once understood, is trivial.” -WES ---
**Author:** ![Demo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demo/32/8472_2.png) [@Demo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/23 "2000-01-13T02:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > - Our relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial How is it _mutually_ beneficial? The only thing I ever remember getting from Isreal were some plans for a killer tank that we never used. How is it beneficial to us? I guess we could use them as a middle east staging point if we needed to. What else? * * * I’m a straight as an arrow when and drunk 🙂 -Omniscient ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/24 "2000-01-13T03:10:00Z")
Felice, I think it was in 1967 that Israel attacked the USS Liberty, they claim it was an accident, and killed 27 American sailors. There were some that said it was a rouge Israeli unit that did not like the USS Liberty spying on them. They apologized. We buried the dead. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/25 "2000-01-13T03:27:00Z")
This is a bit off topic…but relevant I think… Has anyone read up on how Isreal freed themselves from the Brits? Car bombs…assinations…terrorism. Sound familiar? * * * If you can’t convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/26 "2000-01-13T13:00:00Z")
Meanachim Began sp? was part of the unit, Haganah-sp?, that blew up the King David Hotel, killing 97 people, some of whom were children. Your commandos are other people’s terrorists. * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![egkelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/db5fbb/32.png) [@egkelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egkelly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/27 "2000-01-13T15:53:00Z")
The 3 billion $ number cited (as direct American aid to Israel) is just a small part of the whole number. For example, there are grants to Israeli companies and foundations which are nopt included in this number. There is also the forgiveness on the interest on loans, plus guarantees on commercial loans. Also, Israeli companies are allowed to bid on US Government contracts-something NO other country is allowed. I’d say that the total aid to Israel tops 6.6 billion/year, most of which will never be repaid. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/28 "2000-01-13T16:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > ``` > Your commandos are other people's terrorists. > > ``` This applied equally to U.S. political and military heroes. Just ask Phaedrus. * * * “It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/29 "2000-01-13T17:31:00Z")
John John, > [@](#): > > You fail to mention that we gave Israel 5 billion a year in the eighties and just recently cut it down to 3 billion That is the past, which cannot be changed (the 70’s saw us giving less than half of that), I am concerned with what aid is given NOW and tomorrow. We are talking about Israel here, Egypt is a separate nation which receives aid for several different reasons (including our continued use of the Suez Canal). $3B going to the poor, ignorant, starving masses, huh? That’s a hollow arguement - over 60% of our budget goes to social programs and education - not even 1% goes to ALL foreign aid. > [@](#): > > Although the absolute amount of U.S. government aid to Israel is substantial, it is one of the most cost-effective investments that Americans make in support of their international interests; this is especially true because virtually the entire annual $1.2 billion economic aid returns to the United States in the form of debt repayment, while $1.325 of the $1.8 billion annual military aid must by law be spent in the United States, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. By comparison, U.S. expenditures in support of European allies in NATO are still many times the size of the aid to Israel: While the U.S. defense budget is divided functionally, not regionally, roughly 40 to 50 percent–or $80 to $112 billion–can be estimated to directly or indirectly support American defense commitments to Europe Read the whole [article](http://com.primenet.com/jeffp/hot/rafiart.htm) to find how our relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial. * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/30 "2000-01-14T07:21:00Z")
John John wrote: > [@](#): > > There were some that said it was a rouge Israeli unit Nothing scarier than an Israeli unit with ruddy cheeks. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/31 "2000-01-14T12:01:00Z")
> [@](#): > > This applied equally to U.S. political and military heroes. Just ask Phaedrus Sure, of course. To the Indians the US were terrorists. I would not disagree. * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/32 "2000-01-14T12:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Read the whole article to find how our relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial. Gordon and Danzeiger are part of the Israeli Political Action Committee [PAC] who’s job it is is to convince Americans that money send to Israel is benifical to the US. * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/33 "2000-01-14T12:12:00Z")
Oh, thanks, tracer that was very funny. 🙂 * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/34 "2000-01-15T06:28:00Z")
Oh. . .never mind then! 😃 * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/35 "2000-01-15T06:36:00Z")
I’ll try to find an impartial article. What I am trying to demonstrate, is that $3B is nothing and that it does buy what we need from Israel, an ally in the mideast and a piece of ground we can use should the need arise. Hey, you try renting a great piece of land like Israel for only $3B/year: it’s got a gorgeous coastline, fabulous ancient history and a really cool lake! * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![spankboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@spankboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankboy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/36 "2000-01-14T22:27:00Z")
Uh, if we weren’t so friendly to Israel, the countries surrounding it might me more friendly to us, eh? I bet if you told Joe Neckbone that he could get gas for twenty-five cents a gallon if we looked the other way while a concerted arab attack was launched on Israel, a segment of folks might go for it. That’s what I don’t get about the ‘forward base’ idea for Israel-the only reason we would be there is to repulse their enemies, so where’s the beef? If something bigger came up (say Saddam gets ramped up again), we could use Saudi Arabia as a base, like we did in the Gulf War. What is their ‘big contribution’ to the US? Debt repayment? (Admittedly, they do lead the world in irrigation technologies-but does it justify the cash?) What I want to figure out, is what makes the Arab nations enemies of the US, except for the fact that they hate Israel. We have had peaceful nations around the globe get slapped around for years, and we didn’t lift a finger (Afghanistan, as well as various other countries in Asia and Africa), but if Israel gets threatened, we go on red alert. Why? I don’t hate Jews, but I don’t hate Arabs, either. If we are going to give a load of cash to Israel in the name of peace, wouldn’t it make sense to give equally to nations around it so everyone could prosper together (and so it wouldn’t look like we’re playing favorites)? [paranoid conspiracy mode on] Y’know, there are those who believe the USS Liberty got attacked to allow Israel to grab more real estate before the war ended. Now, they want reparations for occupied land they settled, to the tune of billions of dollars. Hmmm…_g_ [/paranoid conspiracy mode off] * * * From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee- ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/37 "2000-01-14T22:42:00Z")
spankboy asked: > [@](#): > > What I want to figure out, is what makes the Arab nations enemies of the US, except for the fact that they hate Israel. I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. When Isreal came into being in the late '40’s, President Truman jumped in with American support and funding for the new state. The Arabs declared war upon Israel, and became hostile towards us because we supported Israel. U.S. foreign policy has never been particularly anti-Arab; rather, we have been very supportive of Israel, and many Arab countries consider that anti-Arab and reason to hate us. When they give up that hate and are willing to work with us and Israel- see Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.- we jump in with support and aid ourselves. > [@](#): > > We have had peaceful nations around the globe get slapped around for years, and we didn’t lift a finger (Afghanistan, as well as various other countries in Asia and Africa), but if Israel gets threatened, we go on red alert. Why? 'Scuse me? Which other countries? When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we sent money to the rebels; we didn’t move much further in for fear that we’d start a hot war with the Soviet Union. As for other countries- well, we’ve fought against North Korea invading South Korea, and North Vietnam invading South Vietnam. What it comes down to is popular opinion and necessary interest. We haven’t involved ourselves much in African wars because those wars have not garnered much popular outcry and because the countries fighting do not hold resources that the U.S. considers vital. Israel is tied to American opinion, at least more tied than any other Middle Eastern country; by that same token, the U.S. was more willing to support Greek claims in Cypress than Turkish claims. But the main reason we jump when Israel seems threatened is because Israel is _such_ a strong ally of ours. We’ve supported and assisted them for over fifty years, and to pull back now and say, “Well, you’re not really worth it” would send a very bad message to every other country in the world- that the U.S. is fickle, and should we change our minds about you, we’ll just leave you to rot and be carved up by your enemies. Not a good message to send to countries that we’re trying to become friends with. * * * JMCJ This could be YOUR sig line! For just five cents a post, JMCJ Enterprises will place YOUR sig line at the bottom of each message! ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/38 "2000-01-15T02:27:00Z")
Sake > [@](#): > > What I am trying to demonstrate, is that $3B is nothing and that it does buy what we need from Israel, You think we have to PAY for their support? I think we would get it even if we did not send money. 3B is not as small an amount as you make it out to be, or as the IPAC makes it out to be. It can do alot of good right here at home. * * * Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise. [lankavatara Sutra] ---
**Author:** ![LongHrn99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e4f/32.png) [@LongHrn99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LongHrn99)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/39 "2000-01-15T05:00:00Z")
John John, you have no idea how little 3B is. It couldn’t fund this nation for a week (if even that much), much less a year for all these programs you think it should go to. It’s chump change for wealthy nations and CEOs of computer corporations. * * * “I hear the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me.” -T.S. Eliot ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320/40 "2000-01-15T06:18:00Z")
Okay, then give the $3B to me, then. I could put it to _great_ use. Starting with that Learjet I’ve always wanted to own… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-asking-price-for-peace-65-billion/17320.md?page=3)