Full asking price for peace: $65 Billion

Great Debates
21

You fail to mention that we gave Israel 5 billion a year in the eighties and just recently cut it down to 3 billion. You must realize that over the decade of the eighties alone we gave Israel about 50 billion dollars, which, for a nation that size, is no paltry sum.

We should not leave Egypt out of this equation, which got about 35 billion over the same period.

I say we have to cut it back. 3 billion could educate and feed a lot of American poor.

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

22

Can I ask what the USS Liberty has to do with anything?

Felice

“Everything, once understood, is trivial.” -WES

23

How is it mutually beneficial? The only thing I ever remember getting from Isreal were some plans for a killer tank that we never used. How is it beneficial to us? I guess we could use them as a middle east staging point if we needed to. What else?

I’m a straight as an arrow when and drunk :slight_smile:

-Omniscient

24

Felice, I think it was in 1967 that Israel attacked the USS Liberty, they claim it was an accident, and killed 27 American sailors. There were some that said it was a rouge Israeli unit that did not like the USS Liberty spying on them. They apologized. We buried the dead.

25

This is a bit off topic…but relevant I think…

Has anyone read up on how Isreal freed themselves from the Brits?

Car bombs…assinations…terrorism.

Sound familiar?

If you can’t convince them, confuse them.
Harry S. Truman

26

Meanachim Began sp? was part of the unit, Haganah-sp?, that blew up the King David Hotel, killing 97 people, some of whom were children.

Your commandos are other people’s terrorists.

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

27

The 3 billion $ number cited (as direct American aid to Israel) is just a small part of the whole number. For example, there are grants to Israeli companies and foundations which are nopt included in this number. There is also the forgiveness on the interest on loans, plus guarantees on commercial loans. Also, Israeli companies are allowed to bid on US Government contracts-something NO other country is allowed. I’d say that the total aid to Israel tops 6.6 billion/year, most of which will never be repaid.

28

This applied equally to U.S. political and military heroes. Just ask Phaedrus.

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

29

John John,

That is the past, which cannot be changed (the 70’s saw us giving less than half of that), I am concerned with what aid is given NOW and tomorrow.

We are talking about Israel here, Egypt is a separate nation which receives aid for several different reasons (including our continued use of the Suez Canal).

$3B going to the poor, ignorant, starving masses, huh? That’s a hollow arguement - over 60% of our budget goes to social programs and education - not even 1% goes to ALL foreign aid.

Read the whole article to find how our relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial.

Hell is Other People.

30

John John wrote:

Nothing scarier than an Israeli unit with ruddy cheeks.

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist.)

31

Sure, of course. To the Indians the US were terrorists. I would not disagree.

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

32

Gordon and Danzeiger are part of the Israeli Political Action Committee [PAC] who’s job it is is to convince Americans that money send to Israel is benifical to the US.

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

33

Oh, thanks, tracer that was very funny. :slight_smile:

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

34

Oh. . .never mind then! :smiley:

Hell is Other People.

35

I’ll try to find an impartial article. What I am trying to demonstrate, is that $3B is nothing and that it does buy what we need from Israel, an ally in the mideast and a piece of ground we can use should the need arise.

Hey, you try renting a great piece of land like Israel for only $3B/year: it’s got a gorgeous coastline, fabulous ancient history and a really cool lake!

Hell is Other People.

36

Uh, if we weren’t so friendly to Israel, the countries surrounding it might me more friendly to us, eh? I bet if you told Joe Neckbone that he could get gas for twenty-five cents a gallon if we looked the other way while a concerted arab attack was launched on Israel, a segment of folks might go for it.

That’s what I don’t get about the ‘forward base’ idea for Israel-the only reason we would be there is to repulse their enemies, so where’s the beef? If something bigger came up (say Saddam gets ramped up again), we could use Saudi Arabia as a base, like we did in the Gulf War. What is their ‘big contribution’ to the US? Debt repayment? (Admittedly, they do lead the world in irrigation technologies-but does it justify the cash?)

What I want to figure out, is what makes the Arab nations enemies of the US, except for the fact that they hate Israel. We have had peaceful nations around the globe get slapped around for years, and we didn’t lift a finger (Afghanistan, as well as various other countries in Asia and Africa), but if Israel gets threatened, we go on red alert. Why?

I don’t hate Jews, but I don’t hate Arabs, either. If we are going to give a load of cash to Israel in the name of peace, wouldn’t it make sense to give equally to nations around it so everyone could prosper together (and so it wouldn’t look like we’re playing favorites)?

[paranoid conspiracy mode on]

Y’know, there are those who believe the USS Liberty got attacked to allow Israel to grab more real estate before the war ended. Now, they want reparations for occupied land they settled, to the tune of billions of dollars.

Hmmm…g

[/paranoid conspiracy mode off]

From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee-

37

spankboy asked:

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse.

When Isreal came into being in the late '40’s, President Truman jumped in with American support and funding for the new state. The Arabs declared war upon Israel, and became hostile towards us because we supported Israel.

U.S. foreign policy has never been particularly anti-Arab; rather, we have been very supportive of Israel, and many Arab countries consider that anti-Arab and reason to hate us. When they give up that hate and are willing to work with us and Israel- see Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.- we jump in with support and aid ourselves.

'Scuse me? Which other countries? When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we sent money to the rebels; we didn’t move much further in for fear that we’d start a hot war with the Soviet Union. As for other countries- well, we’ve fought against North Korea invading South Korea, and North Vietnam invading South Vietnam.

What it comes down to is popular opinion and necessary interest. We haven’t involved ourselves much in African wars because those wars have not garnered much popular outcry and because the countries fighting do not hold resources that the U.S. considers vital. Israel is tied to American opinion, at least more tied than any other Middle Eastern country; by that same token, the U.S. was more willing to support Greek claims in Cypress than Turkish claims.

But the main reason we jump when Israel seems threatened is because Israel is such a strong ally of ours. We’ve supported and assisted them for over fifty years, and to pull back now and say, “Well, you’re not really worth it” would send a very bad message to every other country in the world- that the U.S. is fickle, and should we change our minds about you, we’ll just leave you to rot and be carved up by your enemies. Not a good message to send to countries that we’re trying to become friends with.

JMCJ

This could be YOUR sig line! For just five cents a post, JMCJ Enterprises will place YOUR sig line at the bottom of each message!

38

Sake

You think we have to PAY for their support? I think we would get it even if we did not send money.

3B is not as small an amount as you make it out to be, or as the IPAC makes it out to be. It can do alot of good right here at home.

Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]

39

John John, you have no idea how little 3B is. It couldn’t fund this nation for a week (if even that much), much less a year for all these programs you think it should go to. It’s chump change for wealthy nations and CEOs of computer corporations.

“I hear the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me.”
-T.S. Eliot

40

Okay, then give the $3B to me, then. I could put it to great use. Starting with that Learjet I’ve always wanted to own…